See One Beautiful Soul with Barbara Heller | Ep 41

This episode is pure gold! What happens when you get an orthodox Jew and a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints together? It felt like magic to me.

Lean in as Barbara reminds us of all the places we can find and build community, shows us how to move forward when someone in community wounds us, and exemplifies the peace that comes from living a value-driven life. And you'll even get to hear her British accent.

Barbara Heller is an award winning actress, voice over artist, podcaster, filmmaker, songwriter, playwright, and educator.  She is also a published author.   

Subscribe to her award winning podcast See One Beautiful Soul  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/see-one-beautiful-soul/id1525772911

Follow her on IG at https://www.instagram.com/barbieheller/

She tours with her One Woman Show as well as Transformational Q and As and Workshops leading people in Deep Conversation, Meditations, Laughter, and Song!

Barbara also offers 1:1 Coaching. Email info@BarbHeller.com to connect.

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Transcript

Barbara: 0:00

We were in a, a very difficult situation as kids, and we both talk about it publicly. I mean, I talk about it on my podcast and my shows. I do a lot of one woman shows and concerts. And I, I write books and So every time I write about it, I'm always so grateful that I had community. Whether it was my school community, like when I was little, I really looked up to my teachers and God blessed me, you know, when God takes something away or gets us a challenge in one area, there's always going to be the blessings in like, if you just, just look, just open your eyes. You'll find them. And when I look back, I was so blessed to have amazing teachers and I know all their names. I remember my pictures of all of them. They were my parental figures and, you know, I had what I had and it was perfect just the way that it was. I would say school, and dance class and voice lessons and theater was the place, were the places that I found space for myself. Cause I didn't have that at home at home. It was just a mess. It was like a tornado, all like a constant tornado of yelling and violence.

Kristin: 1:11

Hello and welcome to another episode of Solidarity Sister with Kristin Wilson. This week's episode is fantastic. I had such a wonderful conversation with Barbara Heller. It was actually the longest interview that I've ever done because there were just so many things for us to dive into. I love her take on community and the places where she found community as a child, the beautiful community that she grows. Everywhere she goes, really, this is a woman who connects with people, who sees people as they are. I love the healing work that she has done for herself that has allowed her to really create community wherever she goes. And I'm so grateful that she took me in. Because I'm not sure that I would be here podcasting without her. I took her sister's podcasting course, which helped me to get on this journey, but it was really connecting with Barbara that pulled me in ultimately and helped me to have enough faith in myself to Follow the path set out before me. So I will forever be grateful to Barbara for that. And you are just going to love leaning in and benefiting from the wisdom and the love and the kindness and the compassion, but also just the realness and the vulnerability and the courage that Barbara has in the way that she connects with people.

2:42

Outro Music

Kristin: 2:46

Hello and welcome to another episode of Solidarity Sister with Kristin Wilson, and I am so excited for this episode. I have Barbara Heller here with me today, and if I were to define what she does, there are so many things. She has a podcast. She's a teacher. She's a musician. She's a singer. She's an actress. She does voiceover work. She is part of the Cathy Heller world. She was the Helped Cathy become who she is. I would suggest she has so many roles. But one of my favorite things about her is the way that she holds space for people to see the divinity within them. She has a gift for creating a container around people that they can then grow into. Thank you. It's not a rigid container. It's a flexible container as they grow and expand. So I'm super excited to talk about community and tell me, Barbara, how are you doing today for real?

Barbara: 3:45

Wow. Well, thank you so much. That was such a beautiful introduction and it, it humbles me and I feel so seen and validated and for all the things that I want to be seen for. So I really appreciate that. I'm really great. I'm having one of those days where. I am breathing into like Cathy just said on the quilt today. I think we were both there. You know, how good can you let things be? And I'm definitely not always there in my past life for sure, like the last, you know, several years, but I am really allowing in blessings. It's one of my affirmations in the morning. I'm a very big Hal Elrod person. Like every morning for years, even before I knew who he was, I always had a morning practice and one of my morning practices is to have these affirmations that I say, and I have a dear friend, Sierra Sophia, who is like, She's really fine tuning my affirmations and I didn't realize how much that colors my day. Because I would just be like, Oh, everything's amazing. And, you know I do pray from a Hebrew Siddur, a Jewish prayer book every morning for like the last 20 something years. But those are very affirmative as well. But like one of my affirmations for today is like, how great can I allow things to be? How easy, how effervescent and abundant can I make everything or can I help co create everything with the divine? And I'm really seeing it more and more every day. Like, it's really cool. That's honestly how I'm feeling. I would tell you. I was struggling a few days ago. And I'm bringing that up because if someone just heard what I just said, they'd be like, Oh, you know, I don't know if I can really believe that, but it's, it's only because of the contrast, right? Like the darkness that I, that I just went through being 47, wanting so much for the last 23 years. And so attached to being married and having children and Like, just now opening up to new ways of doing things, it's a game changer. You asked. I'm not, I'm not one of those people that is going to be like, I'm fine. How are you? That's why I phrase

Kristin: 5:57

it the way I do. That's why I say, how are you doing today for real? Because I actually want the real answer. I don't want someone to just say, fine. And I hear you because I cried four times on Saturday, okay? I'm doing a lot better today, but Saturday, I did, legit. I cry four times and I record podcasts in my bus. Sometimes I come out to my bus and I cry because it gives me a little buffer space from the rest of the world. And, and that is life. It is to be able to experience both sides of it. And we have these wonderful times that we're living in. As much as I wish it could always be like that. If every day was Christmas. Oh, I shouldn't. I should. Okay. If every day is Yom Kippur. I

Barbara: 6:43

love that you used Yom Kippur and not Hanukkah, because most people don't realize that Yom Kippur is supposed to be the happiest day of the year. And most people look at it as the most somber because we fast. And so thank you for using it.

Kristin: 6:57

Like if that was every day. Then it wouldn't be that special anymore.

Barbara: 7:03

Yeah, it is. That's why it's called a holy day, a holiday. That's what holiday comes from. For sure.

Kristin: 7:09

Yeah, I think that's perfect. So tell me, what are you listening to recently? Podcasts, music, audiobooks? What is in your ear?

Barbara: 7:17

I'm a big fan of my sister, her podcast. I absolutely love her guests and, and I love my podcast. You have a beautiful soul. Yeah, I mean I guess that that's where I'll stop for now. Cause I could go on and on about what I listened to, what I consume. And I. It's not normal when you're single, right? I mean, that's what

Kristin: 7:34

okay. So I am. I mean, I'm not single, but I, I absorbed over. I mean, I was trying to estimate. I think I'm on pace for 380 audio books this year. So I'm not normal, but in my own way, because that is how I Get the ADHD part of my brain that is fighting about every stupid task, like doing dishes or laundry or going to the grocery store or the things that are boring and not fun and I don't want to do them. That's how I engage the part of my brain that's like, don't do that. That is fun. And so I really, that is also not normal. So I feel you.

Barbara: 8:09

I also have a little bit of that. I learned very young how to manage my ADD. Thank God I'm very, very structured for that reason. And I listen to choir music. I have a choir classical that, that took me years to figure out how to get the algorithm right in Spotify. But if it's something by Cain, the band that I listened to a lot of religious music C. C. Winans. have some spiritual music on Spotify as well that I wrote. And I'm just obsessed with choirs. Like, as long as they're singing about God and I don't have to really listen hard to the words I'm like in. So when you ask me, like, what am I listening to? That's what I'm listening to when I'm going through my emails, when I'm doing laundry, when I'm buying, putting in my groceries. So I should say that because it is like a big part of my day. It's like being in a retreat whenever I put it on. So

Kristin: 9:04

I love that. I think music is so powerful. My husband and I actually lead a youth choir. It's free. Oh sleep, but

Barbara: 9:14

I want to come out there and have them sing backup for you are gold. I would, or someone

Kristin: 9:18

would be so fun. Actually. I have the perfect choir to that for you. So our choir is a very casual come as you are like ages 11 to 18. Some of them don't really know how to sing. And some of them are really good. We just are like, whoever wants to come, it's free. We sing mainly Jesus kind of music. So like. And it's on Sunday nights and it's just fun. And we always have cookies and it's a good time, but if

Barbara: 9:43

they're open to a song about God, that doesn't necessarily name God, but like says, you know,

Kristin: 9:50

I choose the music I am open. So there you go. Also, my son sings. Well, three of my kids, but they sing with the Rise Up Children's Choir, which they are on YouTube. They've done a bunch of things. My son is in Amplify, which is their acapella group. And they just competed in the ICHSA competition. They took first at quarterfinals. They did not take first at semifinals, which would have been what they needed to do to go on to New York. But there are choirs in Utah. So you want to come to Utah? I got backup for you. Okay, music videos. I'll send you the YouTube channel.

Barbara: 10:26

I want to be in one. I, that would be so fun. The only kind of music I sing is like, I'm into God music. So that's it. I don't really sing anything else.

Kristin: 10:36

I love that. I also just for the first time did an open mic at a bar because I have a daughter that's a singer songwriter. And I have not sung like that, like ever, but I did to you go where your kids are. And I was like, well, I pretty much only sing K-love music, which is more Christian music. But she's like, that's okay, mom. And so I took Jesus to the bar. It was awesome.

Barbara: 10:59

That's that's a song right there. Yeah,

Kristin: 11:01

I know. I don't write music, but someday maybe so Anyway I feel like we could do like 10 podcasts together Like there is so much to unpack but I really want to unpack some of your experiences with community Because the sense that I get from you is that you are like a master expert level community builder because you have that skill of of inviting people. I've just been reading this book called Community and it talks, one of the people that he researched talks about when we focus on the strengths and the gifts that people have, that that is one key way to build community. That so often we focus on people's deficiencies or we get a little bit of a savior complex. Like I'm going to come in like someone's in poverty and we're like, I will save you because if we pay these things, but what we're missing is all of the gifts. that that person in poverty has to offer the community and how we build the community when we let people shine. And they really do lift themselves out if we give them some tools for helping their gifts to develop. So tell me about your experiences with community and some of the work that you've done where you're finding community personally also. Sure. Your, your people, you know, your inner circle people, your Brene Brown, like bury, a body, people, you know.

Barbara: 12:22

So thank you. I mean, I guess I like the why behind things, if that's okay to go in that direction. And then I can build up from there. So I think me and my sister, you know, we, we sort of raised each other. We were in a, a very difficult situation as kids, and we both talk about it publicly. I mean, I talk about it on my podcast and my shows. I do a lot of one woman shows and concerts. And I, I write books and So every time I write about it, I'm always so grateful that I had community. Whether it was my school community, like when I was little, I really looked up to my teachers and God blessed me, you know, when God takes something away or gets us a challenge in one area, there's always going to be the blessings in like, if you just, just look, just open your eyes. You'll find them. And when I look back, I was so blessed to have amazing teachers and I know all their names. I remember my pictures of all of them. They were my parental figures kindergarten, first grade, second grade, third grade, got a little wonky. Didn't have the best teacher then. Yeah, that was really hard. Third and fifth grade, I had really rough teachers, but my fourth grade teacher was amazing. And, you know, I had what I had and it was perfect just the way that it was. But I think, you know, I was bullied in middle school pretty badly. Like real, like I have some really traumatic memories, but I would say school was the, and dance class and voice lessons and theater was the place, were the places that I found space for myself. Cause I didn't have that at home at home. It was just a mess. It was like a tornado, all like a constant tornado of yelling and violence. And so I didn't know that I was dehydrated as a kid, like never knew that always was hoarse now I make a living, you know, doing voices. So I've always got, you know, my drinks with me. Non alcoholic 99 percent of the time like really not into drinking. I just don't like it. Thank god, but I I really just found my community outside my home and so I've always been like that and because the thank god the sensors went off like this is safe It's safe to find community outside your home I am that weird person that like shoots a lot of video on the subway and go walking through the streets and saying hello to 25 people every morning. Like, I've just always been that person. I can rely on the person on the street. And when, they're unfriendly to me, I break the wall down. Like my, my best friend, Anna is like, you really like to. chip away at people when they don't say, cause she's from the former USSR. So she's like, I don't tell anybody anything. Cause she doesn't have a Facebook. Like she's just, she is private, but that's why she needs me around. Cause I, you know, get her out of her shell. And she loves that. But yeah, I real, I'm a double E extrovert, like not in bra, but like extrovert. And I'm not afraid to be fully myself, you know, outside. And I think that's where that came from. And then, oh, thank God when I was 19, I was dared by a rabbi. to start praying to God. And before that, my whole life was theater because that was the only place I ever felt accepted. So I thought, I didn't realize there was another level of expansion and acceptance, finding your tribe outside of a profession or a hobby. I didn't realize that like you could actually find your DNA or, you know, soul DNA tribe in a spiritual community. And I. I mean, the whole reason started teaching what I do and writing the curriculum that I do and having my podcast is because I want, and this, this is what I would put on my billboard. Sorry. I'm like already going to the next question, but. I really wish that every single person had the blessing of having someone from a very young age just open up the gift box of God loves you. I don't care if you call it God, Jesus, Hashem. We have 72 names for God in Judaism. My favorite one is Hashem because it means the name. So it's like a code within a code. Shiva, if you're Hindu, like call it whatever you want to call it. But please find it. Please find it outside the physical realm and start loving having a relationship with it because to me, we are so looking for something physical in our culture all the time to make us feel a certain way. And that is so not, in my experience, what it's about. So community for me at 19. Became like, oh my gosh, like I'm Jewish and it doesn't have to be Mel Brooks and bagels. It can be something so deep, so tribal, so in my physical and spiritual DNA. And I get to embrace it and learn about it and grapple with it and have frustration with it. And then also have an American community, a patriot community, a country community go to other countries and seek out my Jewish brothers and sisters. And also hang out with other tribes and say, here's where we're different. And here's where we're so similar and let's celebrate that. And then, you know, I think going to Israel at 24, cause it, it took me five years to really make carve out a space for, for that kind of level of learning Judaism, like sitting down for nine hours a day and just learning the Bible, like that. Was just life changing. And then at leaving that's the monastery, like leaving the super religious Jewish community, and then going back to where I was from and having this middle place of like, I can dip in, I can dip out. I can be a light to my nation. I can be light to the other nations and vice versa. It's just euphoric. I'm so blessed that I was courageous enough. If there's anything I've been courageous for in my life, it's to hang out with God and my community. And I say that because it is the biggest blessing. I have worked my butt off to try to get married. I've gone on a million dates. I went on a hundred dates on, not on, on purpose, just because I was looking for my soulmate. Didn't touch a guy, super Mormon of me. Didn't know, didn't know it was a Mormon thing till, till I knew. And then I was like, Oh, we're the same. But 24 at 24, I took a vow to not touch guys anymore, but I had already, and I've been public about this. I was already still a virgin anyway, but I still like had fun with, you know, until 24, like I went on dates and kissed people and didn't know what the heck I was doing and felt really uncomfortable. Cause it is uncomfortable when you're not committed and it's. The thing that nobody talks about but it's like really not okay for lots of reasons even though don't judge anybody If you're listening and you've had premarital sex, i'm not judging you. It's just we're really doing a disservice, especially women I think the real feminism if you want to know my opinion is to Like save it and like make them work really hard for it. It's just my, but cause I've been on both sides of that and it's like, Oh, okay. This, this feels a lot better. So from 24 to 30, didn't touch a guy, didn't touch a guy, didn't hug a guy, nothing, just dating for marriage, dating for marriage. And there were a hundred guys in there. And when I got to 89, I had this list and my sister was like, that's a show. And I was like, Oh, Really? I've thought about that. Do you think people would watch it? She goes, Oh, definitely. And I was like, you mean for the stage, right? She's like, yeah, not a reality. Like don't go back. Don't do high fidelity, you know like the movie. So I conjured up this show called a hundred dates with Barb and then it became a, it was 45 minutes long and then it became a two hour show. And we toured we actually went flew to Texas and did it. So like, I've definitely You know, lived out my life on stage and that helped me heal so much. And this, sorry, I'm on this huge tangent, but the point of this whole story is that doing that show really allowed me to see how much community had been holding me up that entire time, like from childhood to 31, 32, I was like, Oh my gosh, I would have perished had it not been for my community, especially when I found the Jewish community. At 24, like really, really found it. Those six years would have been way worse, you know, even with the dating, because I've always had that community and then it, 30, 31, 32. After doing the show, I kind of like took a few steps back religiously, but you know, finding my way through still a virgin, believe it or not. 47. I know. But this whole time I've been really, you know, one time my sister was like, you're like married to God in the community, aren't you? And I was like, I guess I am, you know, cause I don't have a choice. Yeah. And it's, it's okay. Like, it's really, I don't think of myself as a nun, but I, I get why some people could be like, whoa, she's different because I, I'm just not interested in committing to somebody until they check off certain things that are really valuable to me. I tried. was actually engaged to someone once and he's lovely. He just wasn't the right person because there were things that were just missing and I couldn't lie to my body, my body was like, no. My brain was like, do it. You need to get married. But thank God for the both of us. And now he's married with kids and I'm so happy for him. But you know, it's okay to be married if you're listening and you haven't found that person yet. But you, you do have a community or you're, you're like, Ooh, I think I, I will venture out and try to find a community. Please do it and please don't beat yourself up for not being married'cause. Your community needs you and you need that. 100%.

Kristin: 22:47

I hope that helped. Oh, it does help. And I, I love, I love so many things about that. One of the things that I'm learning through all the guests I talk to who are coming from all different life experiences is how much the wounds that we receive throughout our life, whether it's childhood trauma, whether it's big T trauma, little T trauma, all of those wounds, we, we need self care. We need self love. We need that piece of caring for ourselves. That is really important. But the full healing, I have not come across the unicorn yet who experienced a more full healing on anything without other people having a role in that healing. Those things that are wounded in relationship, in community, in whatever way, whether it's your family or people bullying you at school or a church community that isn't holding you up the way that they ought to, because some of them are fantastic and some of them people have really negative experiences and don't want to hold space for all of that, but it's But the healing always happens, like the real healing is in community and you have to do the personal work to be ready to allow the healing to happen and not, not stop that and sabotage yourself from being able to heal, which we all can do from time to time. I absolutely have been that person. So if you are that person too, then solidarity, but we need each other. And it's that community that really heals us and makes us feel whole. And for you to be able to lean back and say, Hey, I was never alone in this. No, you know, I did not get the wish of my heart to date right now. I have been held up. Yeah. And you also have been such a force for good. In ways that, you know, I don't know why God's plan is different for some of us. I just, I don't know.

Barbara: 24:40

I have a clue I have, I'm sorry to interrupt you. It's very recent. I did onsite with Bob Goff, if you're familiar with him. Yeah, I'm a big fan of his. And I actually was introduced to him through, through Cathy's work because I heard him on her podcast and I was like, Oh my God, I need to meet this person. And I went through a very, very difficult. It was almost like surgical. I was working in a community a few years ago, and I said a sentence. That somebody didn't like, and instead of sitting me down, actually someone did sit me down and said, do you realize the weight of what you said? And I said, absolutely not. And I would love to correct it. And they said don't worry about it. We got your back. And the next day I was fired from a job in that community. And it was so severing that people stopped talking to me. Over one sentence and it, it was so earth shaking for me, it brought back all my trauma wounds and just feeling banished feeling bullied, you know, in 6th, grade, feeling like a nobody, I got, I had given my whole soul to this one community for a short time. And within a day I was gone, like I had that conversation with someone and within less than 24 hours, even though they said, we got your back, I was fired and the door was slammed shut and I had to remove my things and it was like, I thank God it worked out. Okay. Like, I had people come from all over the world, literally like with phone calls and emails and, and in person saying, how can you do this to her? She's such a good person. And It didn't matter. They had made their decision, and God was like, Zoop! Like, you're out of here. And, thank God, thank God, I never would be where I am, but, I had to do so much digging, and I, and talk about, this was the other thing I was going to talk about with community, because it's so important for my story that I wound up doing on site. Bob Goff's company. It was a six day retreat. I highly recommend it. It was very expensive, but totally worth every penny. Cathy had done it. And so my sister, and so like I, a couple other people I knew did it and they were like life changing. So I was like, I'm into life changing. I'll do it. And I was in so much pain. My heart hurt for months. I couldn't breathe. It was like, it was like a divorce. Like I've been married to this community since I'm 24. And at the time, you know, I was like, In my forties. And so that's a long time, even if it was just a few years, but this is like 10, 15 years. So when I went on onsite, we had this one assignment. I'll save you a couple hundred bucks. But still do it. Cause it's so awesome. And they have kosher food options. If you're listening and you keep kosher like me. And I, they're all about God, community, and therapy together. So, mind blown, like, amazing, like, never did a therapy thing where God was like super present, so, loved it. Wasn't a bad word there. And everyone's allowed, like Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, atheists, like everyone's allowed as long as you can make space for this idea of God and the healing. So love the whole thing. So this one assignment was to write a letter to your addiction and thank God. You know, maybe other than sugar, I don't really struggle, like, I've, I probably was a a user in my last life because I've made so many podcasts and documentaries about doing drugs and how awful they are for you, so I've never touched anything that I know of, except sugar, which I know can be a huge problem. Drug for some people. So I wrote my letter to the community and I said you've been my addiction I wanted your approval. I wanted to do everything right? I wanted to be perfect in your eyes and you know what that's not unconditional love and I'm so grateful this happened because and you know And it was so hard for me to write that letter But I did it and then when I because they give you the assignment like on the first day and I was like Oh, I got that. I love writing Day five wasn't done. Barb was waiting, sitting on something. And when I finally let it out and I, I was like shaking and crying when I read it to my group, you know, you're in this group the whole week and you get to know everybody so well, like things you don't even want to know, but you know, and I had this epiphany after the six days, cause I had so many during, but the biggest one I had was God needed me to help all those people for the last 20 years Get to a Shabbat meal, get their soulmate, find the best doctor. Like, I mean, my phone all day long, I am connecting people. I don't, I once had a dating coach that was like, can you sit on your hands a little bit? Like you don't stop connecting people all day long. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I can't like, I've cut down a bunch. Cause I used to spend so much of my day just connecting people, but I love it. It's like the memory game, you know, if I know someone for somebody else, And every day there's people, if you pay attention, you will find somebody who needs a square peg in that hole round, you'll find it. You just have to open your ears and your eyes. And I always go, why didn't you call me? I just told you, Oh, I wasn't paying attention. It's like, but I had just asked you, you know, like, but that's because I'm not married with kids yet. That I have all this bandwidth for it. So I don't regret any of what happened. I mean, I wound up writing a musical about cancel culture because of what happened to me. Cause I thought if this can happen to me, if I can be judged so harshly, when all I want is just to mend, that's it. If you spend five minutes with me, you get that. Like I'm not perfect. I say stupid things and dumb things and hurtful things. Cause I'm not perfect. I'm a human. But if anybody ever says to me. You know, Barb, that was not in the best taste. And here's what you said wrong. That wasn't PC. I'm like, Oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. Can I have that person's number? Like, I will go to tea with them. I will apologize. I am so sorry. Like all I wanted to do was sit down with the people who made this harsh judgment on me. And I wasn't allowed. And so they took this sentence and they made it into a sentence. And, you know, it's all good. Like, so many people from that community have come to me and been like, I'm so sorry. Like, they didn't represent me. That was really unfortunate. We know who you are. And that was so awful how, how they did it and what they did to you. And yet, I am so grateful because knowing me, I would have stayed small and in that place for many, many years. Like, let's say they had allowed me to do a forgiveness ceremony with them in my way and we would have healed the whole thing. I never would have wanted to leave. And I was needed for bigger things. And Mel Robbins helped me see that. My sister helped me see that so many of my friends and family from that community were like, oh This is the best thing that ever happened to you, but at the time Not like going home alone every night and and here's i'm. Sorry. I'm just gonna go off here's another thing about community that if you're sitting there with like kids and grandkids and You know, you probably have wonderful listeners who all have families and stuff what you don't know about single people Is they are? Desperately lonely every day Even if they look like they're having a great time on Instagram and you're like, Oh, I wish I could go to France. That's so cool. This person just took off and went to Paris. They are desperately lonely and more so than they were in like 1940. Why? Because people do not give you the time of day unless You know, there's so many other layers now. Well, what's your net worth? What's your Instagram? Well, why should I talk to you? You're, you're actually, that's my favorite of the month. Why are you calling me? You didn't text me beforehand. You didn't make an appointment with me. It's like, Whoa, like just to get in the door to talk to somebody today. It's, it's like breaking down wall. I mean, many walls. So please be kind to your single friends, even if they look. Like they're having the time of their life. They're not, not all the time and build community with them. Cause they really, really need you. And they're never going to ask you.

Kristin: 33:22

I love that you shared that. I actually just recently. I interviewed for another episode that's coming out later this month a business coach friend of mine who is also single. And it was so great to hear her energy and all the things that are going on, but I think it's so important for us to see the other side and to see the whole picture because they might actually be having a great time in France. However, at the end of the day, it's really lonely because who are you telling? You know, who are you pulling out all the pictures for about your France trip, which could be really interesting. And so why aren't we connecting with someone in ways that are not just about, are you married? Do you have kids? You know, as women, that is a very common like line of conversation. Let's talk about our families. But even for those of us, I have eight kids for those of us who have big robust families. Cause we're out there too. That's not all of me either. I don't want my whole identity to be that I'm a wife and mother, even though I value those, those are very, very valuable things. And I appreciate them a lot. I am not ungrateful, but that's not all of who I am. And you being single, that's not all of who you are. You have all these wonderful things. So let's listen about them. Let's find out about them that I had such a good time, actually, like Googling you and listening to podcast episodes. And here's a confession. I don't listen to podcasts. I don't even really listen to Cathy's podcast. I know it's really great. I just, I, Never expected to even do a podcast. And literally I was doom scrolling Facebook one day numbing out because it's been a really rough few years here. And Cathy Heller's bootcamp for podcasting came up on my feed. And it was one of those moments, which like you say, I don't care what you want to call it, the universe or God or the Holy ghost or whatever name you have. It's just like. You need to start a podcast like this whole like feeling in my body and it was like, I don't even listen to podcasts. It's like, what would I even talk about and like what like who would even want to listen to me like just you know like this kind of wrestling with like, but okay okay well this is a free boot camp so I'll go. Okay. I can follow it that far. And then you were actually super instrumental for me because it was really on the fence because I do have a large family and they are very expensive. I have competition dancers. I have people doing these music videos and these, you know, like I'm feeding them and my goodness, inflation is ridiculous. Like, you know, and So I was like, do I spend this money to do this course? And I was really agonizing about it. And what I loved, and you may not remember this because you talked to lots of people. I was like, I don't know, because I'm trying to figure out like, one, can I do this? Because sometimes I don't trust my ADHD self because I think impulsively, like I can do everything and it's going to be so awesome. And then I'm like, but actually I don't have the bandwidth to do everything. So I can't finish all of the things that I want to start I'm like, I don't want to be wasteful of my resources. Like, what should I do? And I loved the way you answered me because you didn't say, Oh, this is great. You won't regret it. Or, Oh, maybe you should consider that whatever you were basically like. Be still and tune in. And what do you hear? What is your intuition telling you? It was creating this container of space to say, it wasn't like a sales pressure thing. Like, Hey, well, you know, price goes up at midnight, you know, like, you know, all the things that, cause there are some really icky, icky sales tactics out there. And it wasn't that it was like, if this is aligned with you, like be still enough to hear if it's aligned with you. And, and I talked with my husband about it, whatever. And so. Here I am like 37 episodes in and hit top, top 10 percent globally in the first two months, which, you know, there's a lot of podcasts that I still have a ways to go, but I was like, okay, this is, and it's because this is what I needed to do. And this is what I was meant to do. And here I am like, but I appreciate the space that you gave me and the way that you cheer people on and that you have the bandwidth. To do that and to show up for random stranger person and help me make that step and make that commitment so that I could be doing what I feel like I need to do. And I feel like this podcast is actually just the beginning of what, what more is coming, which I'm still trying to navigate. And it's hard sometimes to figure it out. You know, many avenues where I'm like, Oh, but, but that ability that you have to see people. And to just call on them to remind them to reflect who they are back to the divinity that's within them. And I'm really sad that somebody couldn't see that in you and would cancel culture you, which I would be like, are you kidding me? Like if you're going to cancel Barbara Heller, you have a problem. This is a you problem. You probably have some really things you need to process because whatever, but yeah. That's okay. It worked for your higher good.

Barbara: 38:39

Yeah. That was the point of it.

Kristin: 38:42

And so often when a door closes for us, or we're feeling like, is this because I wasn't good enough? Is this because I would, no, actually it's because there is something more for you. Yeah. And we can't always see it in the moment for sure.

Barbara: 38:57

And it hurts like hell because you're like, all these people hate me. These people around me. Are talking about me and you know, one of my friends was like, they're vicious people talking about you that they don't know you and they're like they're viciously talking about what you posted a year ago. I was imitating, I do impressions and I was imitating Mariah Carey. And apparently someone, while this whole thing was going on, this is how powerful the internet is. Even though I was, look how I dress. Like I don't show much of my body at all. So, I mean, I wear pants, most Orthodox women don't, but like I wear like very tasteful pants. So, you know, I'm completely, and apparently, because I said the word circumcision in the parody, even though I was dressed to the nines, like, you know, Mariah's always shown a lot of stuff, but you know the song, ah, Christmas. So if Mariah was Jewish, that's what I say. And I was like, and I thought it was funny. Because it's exactly what I'm looking like. I can't not, I can't go out with someone who's female identifying. Sorry, it doesn't work for me. And they have to be certain they have to be Jewish. So It's a joke about my faith, but not to make fun of it or to hurt anybody. And apparently this little group of women in the community were like talking about it and they're like, how could she ever? And these are not religious people. They were just trying to find, that was the worst thing they could find on me, you know? So so if you're listening and you were one of those people, I totally forgive you because you got me where I am, but, but maybe don't be so harsh, you know, like. Try to try, you know, with all your might to try to find why someone would post that. That's, that's always my thing as we start to get to a place in cancel culture. Sadly, it's like, it's a, it's evolving, thank God, because it has to. You can't just, no one's right all the time, right? So there's always going to be things that you find by. President Trump, President Biden, like, they contradict themselves because they're human, and that's what we do as humans, and science changes, so then, you know, masks, no masks, COVID, whatever it is, and so as cancel culture evolves, You know, try to, in Judaism, we have this thing called Dan L'chaf Skhut, which means to judge someone favorably, as much as you possibly can, you know, even when someone's brought to the trial and the judicial system, ever think of that word? It comes from Jewish values and laws, right? Because we had Sanhedrin, which is like a court system. And, and thank God we have that, because that's, Really where our constitution comes from and our judicial system. So we need that. And we need to have, you know, some sort of spirituality and moral code in it. Otherwise it's mayhem or whoever is the tyrannical government will God forbid rule. Right. So if someone actually is called up for murder in the Jewish tradition, you have to have a witness that likes them speak first, and they have to say all the good things about the person before the court, you know, adjourns. And I love that because guess what? No one's evil a hundred percent of the time. I mean, maybe Pharaoh, you know, King Pharaoh Became that way because God hardened his heart But he didn't start out that way and I try to remind people that that we are all we all start out like these Beautiful soul babies. I did learn later on in in my journey that Some people are born with more evil in them that they have to correct in this lifetime, and that's okay, but no one knows who that is. And guess what? We're not supposed to. Because there are people, right, who, you know, we all hear those stories, if we're lucky, about the person who was gonna rob a bank or commit suicide, God forbid, and they met a lovely person like you. And, and as they were leaving Kristin Wilson on the side of the road decides I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do that to myself or other people. I'm not gonna harm today. And it's because even though they might have been struggling with so much evil, just seeing the godliness in someone else made them go, maybe not today, maybe never. So how are we going to get there if we keep judging everyone as though, Oh, you voted for that person? You said that? Forget it. You're fired. You're fired. You know, It's not going to work.

Kristin: 43:42

No, it's so true. One of my favorite things about my Facebook feed is that I have such a diverse friend grouping. And so I have like conspiracy theorist friends, liberal friends and staunch Republican friends and like all over. And for me, I think it's so good for me to continually be reading all of their, all of the things they have to share because it helps me to see one, like even on something, I'll give an example. Like, And I'm going to go big. I'm going to go controversial because sometimes we have to do that. But like abortion as a hotbed topic, okay, which we have on one side people who are really coming from a place of love for an unborn child for an unborn life, who at all costs feel like we have to protect that unborn child. So they go about it in all different ways and all different means to try and justify this is what we're doing. And on the other side, we have this group who's like, We have to preserve the woman and her rights and her feelings. And like, this is the number one and we're talking about two lives. But really, if you want to decrease abortion, in my opinion, while we're running the world, we need to support women better. That's where we show up. It isn't by shaming or belittling people who are in desperate situations that I maybe have no idea what that's like or how they ended up that way. And instead of judging and belittling them that they would consider taking a life, like, we have no idea. So if we really want to decrease abortions, which I think is a very fantastic goal, because I do think that life matters, I think the number one way to do that is to better support women that are in desperate circumstances. That will decrease abortions and increase our support for those women like that is they can answer but I like look at both sides and I can see where they're coming from and and one side likes to demonize the other side well you don't care about women or you don't care but you're a baby killer like what okay no actually we are just not seeing the fact that we are both caring about two different sides and And what can we do that will care about both together? Like that's where the answers lie. When instead of demonizing the other side, we can look and see, okay, that makes sense. I hadn't considered that. How can we work together to find a solution and cancel culture does not like that. Right. Cancel culture wants us to like, hate the other side, demonize the other side, and to not look at the individual, but to people and say, well, this person, everybody, everyone who's a Republican is this is everyone who's a Jew is everyone who's a Christian is whatever. Like, no, like that doesn't serve us. But I love like podcast is all about seeing one beautiful soul. When we see one person at a time and we really look into their hearts, We find that we have way more in common than that we have that would be different. Right. So the problem solving is, I'm like, how do we get that into people? How do we help people to open their minds to build community in that way? Like, what do you think? How do we do that better?

Barbara: 46:56

It's a great question. I mean, I think, you know, the pro life pro choice issue is so great because it really gets people thinking. I love listening to Charlie Kirk debate people because I'm like, Ooh, let's hear how he's going to talk about this one before we can value an unborn life in a uterus. I'd like to see people value their own life. There's a line in my eight character show that I play eight characters. And one of them is a little bit me. She's 28 cause I look 28. Hello. And she's British. And I love to speak with a British accent. At my first part in a movie, I was playing somebody from London and I love the accent so much. It's just so fun to play. So her name is Hillary and she's 28 and she works for a big pharmaceutical company. And she says in the show, my body, my choice. That's why I'm a virgin. And I love saying that because I've said that at parties and, you know, just to mess with people and guys never believe me at first. And I'm like, no, really? Like. You can still look like this and, you know, not like I'm some hot model, but like, whatever you know, people have told me that I'm cute. And you can be in shape and actually have a really good time on a date, if you know what I mean, without actually having intercourse. And I'm so proud of it. I'm so proud of it, and I'm so proud that I am not one of the people going around saying, Well, if I can't have an abortion, he should have a vasectomy. The day I heard that, I just started weeping. Because I am pro choice to a certain degree. The Talmud of Jewish law actually is pro choice. However, it's in certain circumstances. And at the same time, as though it is pro choice, and it's very, very, very few and far between circumstances, which I actually think is the answer, like, I mean, I also, big Jew, like, love looking at Talmudic law for everything, that's my prism, that's just how I am. And I argue with it and I grapple with it, but I'd rather have that I don't think God is mean. I think there's always a good answer. We just may have to spend time really grappling with it and praying about it and meditating on it. And it's not fast. It's, some of the things are supposed to take a little while to figure out, dang it. But I do think that this whole idea of like cutting off a man's genitals, so to speak Is the only answer if a woman can't, I mean, what are we even saying? Like, I'm, I mean, I'm getting controversial, but I, I really don't care. This is really important. And why are people so quick to not value our organs when, I mean, abortion is not easy on the body. It's like, there's so many issues that come out of it. And I have, you know, a few friends that have, have been through that process. From all religions. And it wasn't easy. It wasn't like a trip to get, you know, a waxing or their nails done. Something happened in there and I'm not judging them because I'm their friend and I have compassion and I look to the side of like, they're good. It had to come from a good place. Maybe they didn't know they didn't realize what they were doing. And that's an important conversation too. And why are we raising our girls? To just have sex at 11, 10, 9, you know, the HPV vaccine is being sold to nine year olds right now. It's like, and their parents, and pretty soon the parents won't have consent. I mean, what, why are we so overstimulated with sex at such a young age? I don't understand it. I think it's such a wrong turn for humanity. And it totally makes sense why now, along with that, we have people choosing to end their life. I And not, it's not called suicide anymore. It's called like preventative care. I mean, that is insane to me. So before we can even look at the uterus of a girl who Is not interested in having a child yet, let's look at her, the life that she doesn't value and all the people around her who are also like too busy to talk to her, not valuing their own life, you know, scrolling up, scrolling up, looking at their phone, looking at their phone. I'll get to it later, honey. We'll talk about it later. Like later is now. So before we can even have community, we have to start having these hard conversations. Thank God. We have to have these conversations with people like what are you valuing? What is your legacy? What are you looking at to your relationship with something bigger than you, you know, divine? Do you have a community? And if the answer to both of those questions is not yet, or I don't know, or that's not important to me, that's the serious before we even get to abortion. And that's, I think why people have made politics Religious because every human needs a relationship with their creator and with a community. I don't care. You've tried to find me anybody who doesn't need those two things. Like you kind of said it earlier, but we do. I mean, we do, we do, we do. And if you don't have that, you're going to make it something else. You'll make it your car, your lover, you know your lovers. Like people, people just, I met a guy recently who had a girlfriend in three cities. And I was like a different girlfriend in three cities. And I'm like, how do you keep it straight? He's like, I don't know. And he was drunk. And it's just so sad. I don't need a commitment. I don't need it. And marriage isn't for me. That is so depressing to me. I am not one of those people that says, well, do whatever makes you happy. I don't say that anymore. I don't say that anymore. I think it's a disservice. I think we are responsible for each other and it's not see one beautiful soul. Isn't just Look at yourself or see one person as a soul, it's literally different hands on the same tree. We are all on that tree. So if you know somebody who's a Republican and you despise them, it's because there's something in them that you're looking at from yourself that you don't like. It's always you, always comes back to you. So sorry, I get really heated about this topic, but it's really important to me.

Kristin: 53:37

No apology needed. And I think it is really important because going back to what you, your billboard, you jumped the gun on me, but that's okay. The big billboard. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm totally fine. That was awesome. But I love what you picked. And I totally agree with that. I think I've told my kids, some of my kids are active in my faith and some aren't, my kids range from age five to 23. So I have like adult age kids who are figuring their, their things out. I actually six, just kidding. We had our birthday yesterday. I had my eighth on my 40th birthday. So yesterday we turned 46 and six. So, but I haven't adjusted that we're moving forward. So she's six now, but the one thing I have told my kids that I'm like, I know that I cannot make them believe anything right like that's not how a spiritual or faith journey works like as much as some parents try and really parent through fear and like if you don't believe the things I believe then we're all like it doesn't work and it's not effective but I tell them if I could make you believe one thing like if I could download into your brain this one core belief it would be that you have You I actually believe we have a heavenly parents, like a father and a mother, and then a savior Jesus Christ. So coming, but like, whatever you want to call it, universe, God, like all of the 72 Jewish names, which are beautiful.

Barbara: 54:58

For us, it's, it's 72 Jewish names for the one God.

Kristin: 55:02

Right. But like, because it is, they mean different things. It's like, it's like the adjective, but for, for that, but whatever you want to believe that divine, that, that, that source loves you unconditionally as you are. That is the thing that I tell my kids. I'm like, I know I can't make you believe anything, but if I could, this is the piece, because I think when you have that piece and you have that connection to divinity, It changes everything. For sure. It changes how you show up for yourself. It changes how you show up for other people. It allows you, those people who are really critical of you because of your funny song and they could not see the humor in it. My guess is if we could sneak into their brains, because this has been my life experience, the most critical people outwardly are the most critical people inwardly. And those people are living with that criticism in their brain about themselves. I know. Constantly. And now it's, you know, rubbing off onto their children, to their friends, co workers, because. They have not connected with how important and valued they are just as they are. And I think the way God sees us is that we are loved. We are held in this very moment. And there's always something more for us, like cheering us on in our progression. Like a loving God doesn't want us to be stagnant and be like, Oh, well, this is just how I am. And God loves me how I am. So I can Yeah, like that isn't helping us. That isn't helping us in our society. And sometimes that is what happens. It's like, well, no, I should just be loved just how I am like, yes, yes, you should be loved just as you are. And Yeah. You should be striving to be your higher self. Yeah. Continually and progressing. And so like you mentioned earlier, the value in someone who can learn and grow from their values and say, I used to kind of believe this, but now I have a bigger understanding because we are here to progress. We are here to progress as humans together. We're supporting each other. We're wounding each other. Then we're helping each other heal, forgiving each other and moving on. And, and we are not doing ourselves a service when we pretend that it's okay to just, every, anything goes, everything is equal. It doesn't matter what you're doing. That's all great. Like you are loved just as you are, but let's move forward in positive ways. You know, like let's make the world better.

Barbara: 57:33

Right, right. And just to add on that Rabbi Aaron, who was like my first Orthodox rabbi, who I just fell in love with. I actually met him before Cathy met him. And he is the reason why I'm doing my podcast because he. He dared me to. He's like, Cathy's doing such a great job with her podcast. And I want, I want you to do one too. And I'm like, Rav, what, what should it be about? And he's like, relationships are so good at relationships. I'm like, I am, you know, and that's when it started dawning on me. I'm like, Oh, I really am. Like I, I forgive people really easily. And that's one of the. Like ethics of our, of our fathers, we call it our ethics of our parents in Judaism. It's like slow to anger and quick to forgive. And I know so many people like raise your hand if you're listening right now, and you know, somebody who's easy to anger and doesn't forgive very easily. if you can name someone like that, maybe they need to listen to my podcast. But but he, you know, always says like, you know, God loves you so much that he wants, he, she, it, whatever wants you to be home at a certain time. Like I didn't have parents like that. And my parents are unconditionally loving. That's one thing I always knew, still know. We'll always know, thank God. Like they had their issues and it was a very, very tough childhood for many reasons. And, I always know that they're doing the best that they really can, and they came into the relationship with many issues, and I know they love me unconditionally. The way they show it might be weird, but, you know, I didn't have One of the reasons why it was hard for me to understand their unconditional love is because they didn't say like, I want you home at 11. They were like, all right, you know, you'll go out with your friends. You'll come home at a certain time. I was not held on a, on a short leash because there was no leash. They were just like, so swamped in their own misery, you know, for themselves, for each other. So it was very, very challenging. But when a parent says, I want you home for dinner because I want to spend time with you. It's different than saying you better be home by five o'clock. Right? And so the loving God in all of us needs to say it in a vulnerable way. And the more kids see that they're going to actually develop a relationship with God in that way. It, you know, no pressure to you, Kristin, but I remember when I went to Israel for the first time, Rabbi Aaron said, why don't you take a little bit of time off from speaking with your parents? I was like, but there's a war going on, you know, and the world trade center just came down and he's like, no, no, no, no, no. I, I'm not saying you shouldn't call them just. Maybe don't call them so often because I feel like you're doing it out of obligation and then they're not really present with you on the phone and I want you to really, and this is before cell phones were really smart, so it wasn't hard to do but it was hard for me on a certain level to like just email them for a few months, you know, and like not really take a phone call. Because even with all the problems, like I wanted them to hear my voice and I wanted to hear theirs. And he was getting, giving me the assignment of, you need to clean up, clean out your ears a little bit. Like there was a lot of yelling growing up, so I needed to learn that God's voice was, was different than what my parents sounded like. If that makes sense. And so I really hope maybe there's one parent listening right now who's like, Ooh, I am really tough on my kids. I should stop yelling. Like, yeah, stop. And another thing I was going to add to what you said earlier is. I know that you're, you've been saying to them, if I could download one thing into your brain and like force you to think something. So as a religious school teacher for 25 years, that was like one of the many things I did for almost 25 years. I taught Sunday school just mostly for fun, but sometimes I would make some money at it. It never works when we say things like that, even though it's all what's so great about it is that they know there's a few markers that are really important to you, so that's great. Okay. And as you said, it never works. Like what will work and what already has because of who you are. And I can tell you already like this is because you love God and it's so manifested inside of you and oozes out of you, you already did it. So even if you just hold it in your mind, like I want my kids to have a relationship with God and know that God loves them the best way to do that in my experience and you can Edit, delete it is just you have a relationship with God that you love and you know that God loves you. And if you're just speaking from that place at all times or as often as you can, they're going to get that because they, you lead by example.

Kristin: 1:02:26

I think that's so true. And you know, I don't say it very often, but that is good feedback to think about that. And, but I do try to love them how I think like God would like, I have never had a drop of alcohol in my entire life. Okay. I ever, I've never even tried it. But I have this daughter that's a singer songwriter and I love to hear her perform. And where is it most common that singer songwriters perform when they're, especially when they're new? In bars. Why can't we do that in libraries? I don't know. But we do it in bars. I mean,

Barbara: 1:02:57

you can make it up. You know what I'm going to say. You can totally make that up. It does not have to be there. I, I think that would be on. I've never performed in a bar. Well, that's not true. My cabaret shows are, yeah, they're in cabaret bars, but I, yeah, I mean, I don't drink when I go to them, so.

Kristin: 1:03:13

So, you know, she has this one bar that is, it has a very community feel like they really are good to people. There's a guy there that runs the sound and he's kind of become the bar dad and he kind of watches out for the younger people. It is a really, like, Thoughtful environment just by it being a bar. But like, I find myself, like she sometimes plays brunch. There's these open mics. And a couple of weeks ago she was doing brunch and it was on a Sunday. And so we went to church and I. Do I play the piano during the children's hour and do help with the music there and whatever. And then my husband and I drove straight to this bar. So we're in our church clothes because I didn't want to miss another minute of her singing. And we're there. And this guy that I hadn't met before, I know a lot of The people that hang out there because I've been there enough to watch her. And, and he offered to buy my husband and I shots, which was funny. Cause here we are like in our church clothes and we've just come from church. And I was like, you know, like, and then later he said, you know, I knew you would say, no, I could tell you just came from church, but I love that you were here to see your daughter because not everyone is willing to do that because that isn't.

Barbara: 1:04:29

Really have a look or

Kristin: 1:04:30

yeah, it's not really a Sabbath day activity generally and it's not what but like I also think that showing up for our kids means being where they are and loving them where they are and she's going to remember that forever. She will and then she invited me on stage. which she'd never done before to sing with her on a song that I did not know the words and I am now of that age where I need reading glasses and it's dark because it's a bar and I couldn't even hardly see the words and I was like, oh my gosh, that was so bad. And then she's like, well, you should come play an open mic. So I went back and I played an open mic, which I have not. played music like that in like, you know, forever since I was in high school. So, but it was fun and it was fun to have that connection. And she told me I, she was down for my birthday yesterday and I drove her back. She's without a car right now and she lives an hour away. And she said, you know, I have so many friends. Who are surprised to find out that I come from a Mormon background because you and I have such a good relationship. And so many of those who have left the faith at this time or whatever that their parents then are not as connected to them. And it just doesn't make sense to me why, why parents don't stay connected to their kids, why it becomes this conditional thing. Because our kids need to have the space to figure it out and to know that we love them every day, every step of the way. And it's not like she thinks that I have changed my mind or that I believe less in God because I went to church and then I came to see her on Sunday. Like, she still knows what I believe without me saying it. I don't have to say like, you know, do you know God loves you? Like, and I think sometimes you might be You might feel an impression in your body that you should say something to someone in that way. You should share in that like one specific moment. But in general, just loving people and being where they are like that. That makes all the difference and I'm grateful and I love her like she's awesome and she makes mistakes and so do I and then we figure it out. So you know, but I think that is such good advice and I appreciate you sharing that and I'll be thoughtful about using that phrasing. So is there anything else that you want to share with our listeners either? I feel like you have so much wisdom and I feel like we could honestly have like a six hour conversation but cognizant of your time and what you have going on, but anything you want to share, any more nuggets and also where people can find you. Sure.

Barbara: 1:06:58

So I guess the last thing I'll say is because I know this came up before and I wanted to say something and I forgot because we went on so many tangents, but just because you find that community doesn't mean that you might change it or try out a different one. And even when you're in the community, it's not perfect. There are things that are going to come up. Because people are human and we human a lot. And so just because like you finally find your relationship with God and you find your community doesn't mean like, Oh, it's going to be perfect from now on. And I'm going to be like, people will do the thing where they have such a euphoric experience. Like I did. And then because one thing goes really sour, they have one traumatic experience. They're like, and I'm done. And I'm going to go back to being alone. That's not good either. Like the world needs all of you. And instead of looking at it, like, you know, this is terrible that this happened, you see, now I can't trust God in my community. No, you go back and you say, let's clean this up. Let's learn from this. You know, I don't want to take this with me. Just like you would in a marriage or in a really good friend. You don't want to cancel them either. Just because one sour thing happens or you go through a really difficult time. I've had so many friendships that. You know, they got severed and there's this great rabbi Shlomo Carlbach, his name should be remembered for good and, and his soul should have an Aliyah. He used to say like when two friends, I'm going to butcher the comment, but like when you have a difficulty with a friend, it's like a broken bone cause it hurts so bad, but when it heals and you both come with a full open heart and say, I was, I was wrong, here's where I was wrong. And I'm sorry, and here's. Here's where I felt like you might have been wrong, and you know, I hope you'll forgive me, and I want to forgive you too, and I love you, and I want to make things better. That's the Teshuvah process, like we return back to something even stronger than it was before. And I can say that with certainty that the friendships that I have rekindled And, you know, gone over the speed bump and then like done the Toshiba process with, oh my gosh, you can't compare it. So much deeper connection, more, way more so than someone who's just like, everything's great. No, no, no. Oh, you're fine. You know, like that superficial, like you go to my synagogue or church. Oh, God bless you. Bye. You know, like it's only when you've been in the thick of things with somebody or you've really been there for them or held space for them during a difficult time that I think. Relationship gets like stronger and that's what happens to a broken bone, right? When, when it comes back together, it's, it's a stronger bone than it was before. So so don't wait, don't wait. If you're sitting on something and you're listening right now and you're like, Oh, I had such a bad experience with, you know, this person in my life. Back now, you know, if, if you learned anything from 2020 or October 7th or 9/11, or I could just say other dates that had traumatic things happen in the world, like, You know, there was a death in your family. Do it right now. It don't wait, don't put it off. We do not know what's happening in 10 minutes or tomorrow. You know, God willing, it'll all be great. And even better than it was before. Cause a lot of people are waking up to what cool stuff is really happening in the world. And you have a part to play in this tree. So, you know, you're going to sit there and watch, the seeds, like just sit there, you know, water them or put them into the sun a little bit more. Stretch your branches, hug another leaf. Like we all need each other. And your voice is super important. Don't do the thing where you're like, ah, they want to know what to do anyway. And I had something come up recently with a community member. We got into a thing and I was waiting for him to call me. Cause I was like, we need to talk about something. And he finally did. And somebody said to me like, oh my gosh, you talked to him about that thing. And I was like, yeah, why wouldn't I? He goes, I mean, do you think he really, really heard you? And I'm like, yes, he did. And if he didn't. I'm going to say it again, you know, but I got to do my part. I'm not going to sit on something. You know, you have to say it lovingly you know, just scold somebody and you say, and this is where I went wrong too, you know, show your whole colors, but Yeah. Don't be that person who's, you know that person who's like, well, I'm I, they won't get it anyway. Okay. Well,

Kristin: 1:11:23

and here's the thing, they might not, right? Like I have an experience with a friend who was very close and very dear to me, and I did something that really hurt her that I don't even remember doing. That was the hardest part. But something that supposedly I said to someone that then something, but I have no memory of saying that, and I don't even know which pr, so I only have this vague idea. And she completely cut me off, like 100%. And I grieve the loss of that friendship because she was so dear to me. She had a lot of trauma in her background and things. And I think she just didn't have the bandwidth. And I recently was thinking about her. And so I, I tracked down her email because like, you know, you can look people up now. Yeah. I sent her this long, heartfelt email and she did not respond. And the thing is, is I can't even guarantee that she read it and maybe she read it and she still doesn't have space for me. Like she doesn't, and I'm about that. Like I really am. And so it doesn't always work. So maybe you can say, and I thought, well, should I really reach out? Because maybe she just. I was like, no, because I miss her and I feel so bad that I somehow wounded this friendship, which I wish I could remember. Like, I think I was just so tired and I had little kids and I really have no idea. There's like places in my life that I don't remember, but you know, you still reach out because I know that I left that door open and maybe five years from now. She'll have the bandwidth to, to like, rekindle a relationship with me because if, if you know me, like, I don't mean to hurt people. It's not, it's not malicious. Me too. I do it sometimes because I am human, but I want to fix it just like you. I want to rectify. I want to say, oh, okay, I got this wrong. Please help me to get it right next time. Help me understand what it is. And sometimes the other person won't hear you and they won't respond favorably, but then you, you leave behind the baggage of leaving that unresolved because otherwise we're living with that. And it is coloring the way that you're interacting with others. Like you're doing the best you can, and then you can feel at peace that you did the best you could.

Barbara: 1:13:35

Exactly. And you can pay it forward and teach about it to other people. And when you see other people doing what your friend did to you, say, wait a second, I have an experience I'm going to tell you about, and it's really painful. Please see their good side. First, and, and always assume, like I think 99 percent of the problems in this world could be solved immediately if people just said, I think I judged you too harshly, I'm sorry. I was thinking about it, I don't think you really meant that. And I, and I'm going to apologize, even though you did this thing that hurt, I think I hurt you too. oh my gosh Mic drop. Hundred percent. one of the ways you can get ahold of me is you can listen to my podcast, Seeonebeautifulsoul.com, Seeonebeautifulsoul.com. It's S-E-E-O-N-E beautiful SOU l.com. Also it's on everywhere you listen to podcast. Won an award. I don't know where it, it is ranking right now, but it, it's a great podcast and mostly because of my guests,'cause they're incredible. But also

Kristin: 1:14:38

because I mean, I listened to this podcast and I don't even listen to podcasts. So there is your recommendation. Like it is worth and I went and I left a review on it, but it's a little dash in God because I know that's how my Jewish friends write it. Yeah.

Barbara: 1:14:53

You know why we do that? Because we learned that when you write the word God somewhere, even though the word God is not even in the Torah, we have other words for God, like 70, like, I don't know, I don't But God represents what people think it maybe is sort of, even though we could talk about God for way too many hours that people have time for. And so even with the inference of God, we don't want to mock God by taking it in vain. So that's why we always put a dash because it just, people go, why is that there? I once had a Christian friend that's like, how could you do that to the word God? I'm like, no, no, no. How could you not? And then they were like, Oh, cause they, you know, like one time I write Xmas partially because you know, of my belief system, but also because I don't want to take If you consider C H R I S T to be, you know, Jesus and it's your God, I don't, I don't want to take that in vain either. I also had a Christian friend that took that very seriously and was very upset with me that I did that. And I was like I just try not to write any words for God. And then they were like, Oh, cause what could happen is someone could delete the email or rip up the piece of paper. And then. God's destroyed. And even though it's us humans doing human things, it still does something to our soul in a way. It's like, I just ripped up that paper. I erased it from a, from a whiteboard, you know, like, or chalkboard, you know, like I want to be cognizant of that. That's also why I really generally don't curse. Cause I just, I want to speak nice words.

Kristin: 1:16:32

I love that you shared that. I think that's so important for people to understand, but I was like, I'm leaving this and I know this is how she would do it. So I'm just going to write

Barbara: 1:16:39

So sweet. So yeah. See One Beautiful Soul is my podcast. I have a ton of stuff on YouTube and Instagram. Please follow me send me little notes, share my stuff. I, I really I have a bunch of videos that people say, why isn't this more viral? And I'm like, I don't know. So help me with that. I coach people sometimes one on one. I am in the process of making some retreats happen, which I'm really excited about. I want to, I really want to help moms and daughters connect. It's like a big thing to me. Because I didn't always have the best relationship with my mom, even though I adore her and I love her so much. And, I think our relationship could even be better. So I really value women, women's studies. I'm a femininist and I want, I want to teach women how to be more feminine. I think it's so important, especially now and today. And I think being a mom and a wife is like so holy. And I, I just admire you so much. Like, wow. It's. I'm in awe of you. I can't believe what you've already accomplished, and you're younger than me, like, I'm not worthy at all. So, thank you for your many, many contributions to this world.

Kristin: 1:17:48

Thank you, I appreciate that, because I think so highly of you, so I'm like, oh! She's so, it's so, you know, it's important. So, no, and I have six daughters, so that'd be so cool to come to a retreat.

Barbara: 1:18:01

Yeah, I would love to do it. I really think that women of all faiths. Who are rooted in their faith, need to come together. So that's like I just, that's all I want to do is like, I want to do two retreats a year, maybe have a camp speak at different schools and camps. That's it. That's really all I want to do. So if you have, if you have a school or an organization that could really use someone like me, I teach creativity coaching. I like to open people up because I've. I've been an award winning podcaster, songwriter, playwright. I have a few films out there, some documentaries that won awards, and I never, ever thought that I was going to do any of that. I always just thought I was going to be an actor and it's such a lie. It's so awful that that's all I thought I was worthy of. Not that being an actor is wrong, but. After a while, I started saying, I'm not an activator. I'm a creator. And that day was just so helpful for me. And I'm really, really a teacher. Like all I do is teach through what I write. So I'm developing a TV show right now, which please God, it's all about God. It's so cool. And it's all the lessons I've ever taught in school, just like inside the show. So it's like very fun to write. And I'm so, so, so excited about it. And I love teaching people that they're the same as me. I'm no different than I just have had time to develop it. And I'm not afraid to throw spaghetti on the wall and be really messy. And It's so weird that like, no matter what I try, like I win an award or it goes on tour. I, there's an article written about it. And it's, I mean, I think I have talent, but like, sometimes I can't believe people like what I put out there. I'm like, really? That was so messy. So I,

Kristin: 1:19:48

that's your secret sauce because that's the thing is that when you stand up that way and you throw the spaghetti at the wall, then all the people in the room say, I could do that. That's okay. I don't have to just use a fork, like I could do this in a different way. And so then people want permission to do it messy and they have a hard time giving themselves. I mean, I've been that person by people. I mean, me, where you're like, well, if I can't do it right, it's not worth doing or whatever. No, actually you learn in the doing, yes, it's going to be messy. So do the thing. So people are drawn to you because you are giving them permission to be their whole selves and to be messy in this whole process of like becoming who they really are.

Barbara: 1:20:41

Yeah, I, thank you. And so nice. I, that's what I did with my online courses is like, that's all I really teach is. that and you know, pairing God with healing. It's, it's all about healing really at the end of the day. So we went way over time. I'm so sorry. I think that's

Kristin: 1:20:59

the best. And I'm so grateful for your time. Like, I'm usually I'm really good about time, but then I feel like Sometimes, I don't know, I feel like I really connect with you. So I'm so grateful you've been here and we've had so much that we've been able to discuss. And please look Barbara Heller up, you won't regret it.

1:21:17

Outro Music

Kristin: 1:21:21

Well, thank you so much for sticking with us to the end of that conversation. I'm so grateful. Was it not so good? I hope that you were able to take away some really important pieces, which it will be different depending on what your needs are in life. It may be that you feel inspired to go mend a relationship that's had a rift and try and fix that brokenness. It may be that you are able to look back on your childhood in a different way and see the places where community held you despite the fact that there were a lot of big pieces missing for you. It may be that you are able to be a little bit more brave in the way that you use your voice. It may be that you feel inspired to go and create in the ways that that work for you and that help you to meet your purpose. But whatever you do, Know that it is better to do it in community. I welcome you to come and join the Solidarity Sister Facebook group. If you haven't already, you'll find a link to that in the show notes and to join our ongoing book club that meets on Thursday nights. There's also info about that in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Solidarity Sister community. We needed you.