From Dropout to NASA Scientist and Environmental Innovator: Tanya Rogers on Resilience and Community | Ep 47

Tanya Rogers is truly one of the coolest people I know. Hers is a story of grit and resilience. Listen in to hear about how Tanya worked to overcome a difficult childhood, dropping out of high school and college before going back to school and ultimately becoming a NASA scientist and completing a PhD. My favorite part of this episode was learning about "the Karass" that Tanya has created--a beautiful community filled with care and support. You'll be so inspired.

Also, be sure to check out Tanya's kickstarter at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pco2/carbon-capture-paint-from-the-peoples-co2. She has invented the coolest paint, one which is beautiful AND helps clean up the earth's air at the same time. The kickstarter is live until May 20th at 6 AM MST.

You can find her company on IG @peoplesco2, or at their website: https://www.thepeoplesco2.com/

About Tanya:

Dr. Tanya Rogers is a NASA engineer and the co-founder of The People's CO2, a woman-led startup driven by giving everyone the ability to make a climate difference. 

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If you're a woman who appreciates connecting with other women in community with vulnerability and compassion, please join us in the Solidarity Sister! Facebook group at:

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The Solidarity Sister! Book Club has begun and runs through the end of May. We're reading Brené Brown's Gifts of Imperfection over a period of 15 weeks, and connecting via Zoom and Marco Polo. Find more info in the FB group. Sign up at https://forms.gle/ZHpfhd8hwCpw6NL2A

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Transcript

Tanya: 0:00

I had met this person who didn't even know I was a student showing up at his doorstep, right? I come here the first day of NASA, I'm this big, bright eyed person, I'm just ready to get started. And I knock on the door and my assigned mentor, he looks at me and he goes, who are you? And he's kind of standoffish and he waves his hand and he goes, oh, go talk to the guy down the hallway. Go knock on this guy's door. So I knocked on this guy's door. His name was John. And I was like, look, I don't know what I'm supposed to say. I just want to do some work. I'm a student. Is there anything you can do for me? And he changed my life.

Kristin: 0:41

Hello and welcome to another episode of Solidarity Sister with Kristin Wilson. I am really excited for this episode today because you get to listen to a conversation with one of what might be the coolest people I've ever met. I'm seriously a little bit low key obsessed with her story. Tanya Rogers came from a place where she did not experience privilege. She did not experience community. And in many ways, life may have felt like the odds were not in her favor. She had a lot of false starts, and I don't want to give anything away, but you'll see that things did not look like her future would be bright at different points in her childhood and young adulthood. But then to see her now, Tanya is a NASA scientist, which is so cool. She has a PhD. She is a founder of an incredible woman led company that is focused on making the planet a better place. She is using her scientific skills, her know how, her expertise, and has created this paint that is just so cool. And it absorbs CO2. And changes it into a form that is going to be better and cleaner for the environment. So just by using this paint, you can actually help with climate change. I think that's amazing and incredible and there will be a link to her Kickstarter in the show notes. And also, you are going to love learning about how Tanya has created a beautiful community around her. That might be one of my favorite parts of this episode. But without further ado, lean in because this is such a great episode and I can't wait for you to hear it.

2:41

Outro Music

Kristin: 2:46

Hello and welcome to another episode of Solidarity Sister with Kristin Wilson. And today's guest is Tanya Rogers. I'm really excited to meet her, to get to talk to her. She has such a phenomenal background. You guys are going to love her life story. And we're going to talk about how community has played a role and also some of the exciting projects she's working on. So Tanya, tell me, how are you doing today for real?

Tanya: 3:12

For real. You know, today's good. I'll say the word better. I deal with some health stuff and had a pretty rough flare up starting around Sunday, but I finally got that under control, out of bed, moving around. So on those days I say I'm doing good. If you would have asked me three days ago, you would have gotten a very different response from me.

Kristin: 3:29

I think that's life. Like, yeah, that's why I love to phrase that question in that way, because I want to be able to see the all the pieces, you know, and to represent like there's duality, you have days that you're feeling great, and everything's wonderful, days where especially if you have health issues that are, you know, ongoing. Days where getting out of bed is really hard just to go get some food or do something small like that. So, I'm glad that today is a good day for you. And tell me, what kind of, what are you listening to these days? Audiobooks, books, you know, podcasts, music? Anything like that.

Tanya: 4:08

So, so this is going to be the most least inspirational response ever. And a lot of people always expect me to say I'm a scientist. And so they're always like, you know, what science shows are you watching? What, what science books are you reading? When I'm not doing my day to day stuff, I just want to unplug my brain from all of that. And so I watch and listen to the most garbage stuff. I'm currently watching Love is Blind on Netflix, and I know that's trashy to some people, but I don't have to think about equations or robot language. Use a pen and paper to solve things. And I just said that that's just something I need to build into my daily regimen. And so all this stuff I'm listening to and watching right now are along those lines.

Kristin: 4:51

I think that's great. I don't really watch TV, but I've heard that that's actually a really great show. It shows a lot. So I don't know. I don't have experience, but I've heard that it isn't just trashy. So at least we're done. It's

Tanya: 5:04

entertaining whether it's real or not. I don't care. It provides me something. And I enjoy what it provides me with, so I'm happy with that.

Kristin: 5:11

Well, I think there's a lot of value there because when you come home, the brain needs time for play, whatever play looks like to you and play can look like trashy TV. It can also look like it's coming out depending on how you use it, but the way that you're using it, it sounds like this is play. This is unplugging. This is like giving myself a place that's a break and a rest, allowing you to think in a different way that is not quite so academic and challenging. So tell us a little bit more about what your everyday job is.

Tanya: 5:46

Yeah let's see if I can shift the camera over and if you can see a giant space mural in the background there. Might be a little challenging. I am an engineer at NASA. Chemical engineer by training, but all of my focus is on environmental science, whether that's, you know, how do humans live in space, how do humans live on earth. And so I kind of spun that into earth as well and started this company called The People CO2 that focuses on tackling environmental challenges just for human beings and air quality. Day to day. I'm putting out fires. Sometimes I'm creating the fires depends on the day that you catch me you know, trying to do a lot of technology development and keeping those sort of things rolling. Figuring out how we can get clean water on the space station, which is much harder than it sounds, or get clean air down here on earth and implement that in a way that's effective and affordable and all these logistical things. So it's a That's a little bit of everything.

Kristin: 6:42

So it's like, almost like solving world peace. Like these, I mean, these are big things. These are big tasks.

Tanya: 6:48

I will, I will not put myself up on that high the ladder of world peace. We are tackling a pretty global issue, climate change with the company I started. And so that is very important. And thinking about all the carbon dioxide isn't that's in the air is really important. And what we should do about that's important. And so they're, they're not trivial things for sure.

Kristin: 7:09

Absolutely. And so tell me a little bit about what role community has played for you. I find it interesting. I always love talking to women scientists, because it's very male dominated field, and it can be difficult to find Your community there depends because sometimes it's accepting and sometimes it's not and, and I don't know what your experience has been like there, but I'd love to hear a little bit about how community has had an impact for you, both through your career and then also through your upbringing in some of your childhood years and where community played a role in getting you where you are because I know you've been through some really difficult things. And I want to commend you for being where you are. This is awesome. Like, you're, you're a scientist with NASA, you've started this company, you care about big things, and you didn't have a privileged start.

Tanya: 8:00

No, it was rough. Yeah, it's interesting you talk about, you know, what community has always meant to you because it really hasn't been until the past. Say five years in my life where that word was even recognized by me or something that's important. So I grew up with single income, single mom home, six children, oldest of six, and community to us wasn't really existed. And we were just in survival mode. You take care of yourselves. You try to get food on the table and you do your best just to get through the day to day of everything. We didn't have a lot. We were very poor. We had a lot of traumatic things, you know, that went on that I'll, you know, kind of keep offline for out of family respect, but I was more or less left to, you know, raising all of my siblings from the age of six, you know, and my priorities were, you know, do they have a clean room to sleep in? Do they have something to eat for dinner? And I never thought about anything outside of that. And it wasn't until I was the age I think I was 13 or 14, where somehow I kind of, I don't want to say woke up, but I realized life's not going to go good for me if I stay here. It's not going to be productive for me, or I'm never going to make something out of myself if this is the environment I'm in. So I had called my grandparents who had just moved to Texas, and I was crying, and I was, you know, a little dramatic, and maybe I was partially serious at the time, and I told them, can I please, you know, come there and live with you? If not, I'm going to do something horrible to myself. And I used more extreme words than that. And they just blessed their hearts. They said, yes, we'll put you on a plane. Come on down. And they brought me down to Texas and we did a kind of a trial period for a couple months. And, you know, at this point in their life, they were a few years away from retirement. They'd already raised a kid, you know, there's no reason, you know, they should have taken another child in to raise, you know, they, they moved past all that and I'm very fortunate to let me stay. They ended up adopting me. And I, I kind of recalibrated. Because of that experience. And it took a while. I was a little rebellious, I think around 13 or 14. I was angry at the situation I was in. I was unfairly projecting that onto other people, onto the world. I was stuck in this weird cycle of convincing myself, you know, I just, you can't do anything. Look at where you come from. You can't be anything. So I ended up dropping out of high school and that's where they drew the line. They told me, you know, we gave you a chance. If you don't want this chance, that's your choice. But we're kicking you back, you know, to where you came from. And they sent me back home and I was there for four or five days. And that was the wake up call I really needed. I was six months away from being 18. And I was like, I'm going to do everything in my power the day I turned 18 to get back out of here. And do things right this time. So I did that turned 18, moved back to Texas lived on my own. And over time, my grandparents kind of built trust with me again. I got a job waiting tables and then during the evenings taking classes. So I get my GED and sort of build my education back up. I mean, it took a while. I got my GED started off at a community college. That's all that I could afford transferred into a four year university. Got really sick for the first time. That's a whole other conversation in my health journey, and I ended up failing out of college because of that. And I sat there for a month trying to figure out what I was going to do. And at this time, I still really had no community because it just, I've just always been in this survival mode, you know, look out for yourself. It's just, you're the only one who's going to get through this. You've got your grandparents but there's nobody else there. And I looked around and saw there was a university about an hour away. And I wrote an email begging, begging the dean of the university is, you know, can I please come to your school? I know my GPA is 1. 0. I just need a 2nd chance. Here's my situation. Thankfully, they said, yes, I ended up doing really well there. That's how I landed my job at NASA. You know, NASA was visiting that school. Eventually I went on to graduate school and got my doctorate degree. And I think around that time when I started working at NASA is when I started to understand community and it's all because of one person. I had met this person who didn't even know I was a student showing up at his doorstep, right? I come here the first day of NASA, I'm this big, bright eyed person, I'm just ready to get started. And I knock on the door and my assigned mentor, he looks at me and he goes, who are you? And he's kind of standoffish and he waves his hand and he goes, oh, go talk to the guy down the hallway. Go knock on this guy's door. So I knocked on this guy's door. His name was John. And I was like, look, I don't know what I'm supposed to say. I just, I just want to do some work. I'm a student. Is there anything you can, you can do for me? And he changed my life. You won't find his name online for anything. He doesn't take credit for anything. But he's touched the lives of more students and more people than anybody I know. And he helps everyone. Whether it's he's driving down the road and he sees somebody with a flat tire and he doesn't just pull over to, you know, help them fix their tire. He fixes their tire, he puts them in his car, he goes buys new tires for them and gets them all set up. So there's just, he taught me about what help looks like beyond the surface level. And of course, this is if you're in a position to do so. And then he taught me about why it's important, you know, to have people like that in your life. People who can show up for you in the ways that you need it. Because I think we all need it in different ways, right? Some people, you just maybe need a phone call once a month for somebody to check in on you. And that's all you need or want. Some people, you need a place to go for Sunday dinners. Some people need somebody to call when they have a flat tire. And so he, he's all of those people. And I, I try to implement that in my life. And I kind of, Not collected, but built this community of what I like to call the Karass. I don't know if you're familiar, Kurt Vonnegut in Cat's Cradle, he invented this phrase called the Karass. And in his context, it's religious. So it's bringing together a group of like minded people informally for the will of God. But I think of it outside of religious context, it's just bringing together people just to have kind of informally around you at all times. And I've got students that are in my class now, teachers, custodians. We can all call each other for any time of the night and we go on trips together. We help each other get our foot in the door. When times are hard, we call each other. And so just having somebody there that can show up for you, no matter the ask that's something I really started leaning on a few years ago. And that's, I think, what community has become for me.

Kristin: 14:41

Oh, I think that's such a beautiful story and I love what you've built and I'm sure that for people who didn't grow up within, this is like an insecure attachment situation, right? Where you're six years old you are a child and you're trying to care for children smaller than you. I have a six year old, we are all caring for her. She is caring for her stuff. Well you know, like that's. That does make it difficult to know how to connect that there is a process then to learning how to do that, because it wasn't safe to count on the people around you Who should have been safe. I'm grateful your grandparents showed up as those people for you, but then to have this friend. Who really taught you what community is about and I love the way that you've taken that and you've run with it you know, that pay it forward mentality, but in a bigger way than like, oh, I paid for, you know, somebody who pays in the Starbucks line or whatever. Not that that's not paying forward, but this is at such a deeper, more meaningful level that I

Tanya: 15:48

just

Kristin: 15:49

phenomenal.

Tanya: 15:50

It's become, you're absolutely right that you, I think to have a community, you need some level of trust, right? You need to be able to trust the people that, that are within that. And if you grow up without being able to trust anyone, it's, it's hard to allow yourself to be open to that and to, to some extent be vulnerable and let people in. And to just kind of. You know, be open to the idea of even initiating that process or putting yourself out there, and that's a huge hurdle to get over, and it's, it's hard to do, and I think it's understandable why some people are reluctant to take those steps, and even when you do start to kind of have those people around you, it takes a while to get comfortable with it too.

Kristin: 16:35

Absolutely. So, tell me, What made it? Was it just having this one person and just watching him? Is that what opened the door for you? Like if someone's in your position and you're saying, I have the Karass. It's so much better on the other side. But what would you tell them about how to be brave to take the first step towards even dreaming that this could be possible for them?

Tanya: 16:58

Yeah, you know, I try to think about what would I wanted somebody to say to me? And I don't know if anything would have worked. I honestly don't. I think the closest thing is if somebody were to be honest. So if they, you know, would strip away the motivational lines or inspirational stuff, you know, the just go for it, just do it, or it's going to be great. If somebody came in and was like, look, this is probably going to suck at first, right? And you're probably going to have a hard time. I'm not going to bull crap you there. It's not going to be easy. And just, you know, that's what my experience was. You're not going to be in a worse position than you're in now, probably. So, I think that's maybe what would have pushed me a little bit, just the honesty and the reality of the situation, rather than telling somebody, you know, trust me, it's all going to work out, it's all going to be great. Because while that's true, nobody ever, believes that when they hear it, right, they haven't gone through the steps and the emotions and the experiences to get to that belief yet. So yeah, coming in with honesty about the situation, I think is the most helpful. At least it would have been for me.

Kristin: 18:03

I think that's beautiful. And so what about people on the other side, because I actually have eight children. I don't know if you knew that. From my huge 12 passenger bus. And so I've come across a lot of children. In my years, I was briefly an elementary school teacher before I mostly stayed home with my kids. I've been around a lot of children and there are times where I've kind of tried to take in some extras, you know, and kind of be a support person. What would have helped you? What could the people around you have done better to support you? So that people who are in a position like I am to say, okay, I have kids. I am totally not a perfect mom, but my kids. have a different experience than you're having. And I would like to extend that to children who are not mine. How can I do that better?

Tanya: 18:52

Yeah, no. So I think it's wonderful. You're doing that because my answer is kind of what you're doing. You just need to be there for them and show up. I never had anybody really show up for me outside of my grandparents. And I think that's why there's a lack of trust because a lot of building trust is having somebody there for you, where you get to become familiar and comfortable with them, you can build that relationship. So just giving somebody your time, which I know we're all busy and that's a huge ask. There are absolutely situations where people can't do that, understandable, but if you're privileged or if you can afford time to do so, just show up for somebody repeatedly and consistently and let them build that trust with you.

Kristin: 19:34

I think that's really good. And I think sometimes it doesn't have to take as much time as we think, or maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But I think about things like when I'm visiting one of the kids schools and knowing the names of other kids and saying hello to them by name or asking them about what they're doing. Or my husband and I run a youth choir and just being interested for whoever shows up that they can tell us whatever they want to tell us. and listen and we just care because it's important to them, you know, and it's sometimes it's really interesting, but you know, like sometimes kids are telling, you know, I have a son who used to talk about Pokemon all the time and it just sounded like the Peanuts characters, you know, like the parents and it'd be like Pikachu. I don't think I understood like anything that was going on, but just listening, is that helpful? I mean, it's not like super huge or meaningful, but it's something that takes a little less time if you were already in a space. Just use it to look outward. Does that, does that sound helpful?

Tanya: 20:32

I

Kristin: 20:32

think so,

Tanya: 20:33

because at that age, really any age, humans want to be heard, right? You, you want somebody, like you said, no matter what you're talking about, to genuinely listen to you and listen with intent, not just because they're, you know, waiting until the end of your conversation. It's because they care about whatever it is you have to say. And so I think that's valuable for sure.

Kristin: 20:53

I love the doing it anyway principle, like if you're going somewhere and you were going to go out to eat by yourself, you can always invite a friend, you're doing it anyway, you were already going to go, or you're going to some kind of social event or activity, or for people who are attending church activities, sometimes you're, if you're going anyway, Yeah. To invite, to go with you, then you, you can fit more in, in your life, more meaningful interactions without having to make the extra time if you feel like you don't have it.

Tanya: 21:24

I absolutely, I love having people over, students over my house for dinner because I'm, you know, I'm eating anyways, get to spend quality time with them. Always make sure I make extra, you know, pack leftovers and send with them. Yeah. Doing it anyway is a good way to contextualize it.

Kristin: 21:38

So tell me about the students that you're having then. you mentioned like you were a student when you showed up to NASA. So were you more of like an intern kind of a thing in the beginning and then you turn around and now you have interns? I just want to understand that, that process a little bit more.

Tanya: 21:53

It's a bit all over the place. So I was an intern. I started NASA about 10 years ago and then I flipped over to a full time employee about five years ago. I've met a few students through the formal NASA intern program. There are a lot of internship programs that connect you to mentors and you get a lot of good technical guidance and you build your skills and I think those are wonderful. The things that I found lacking that some students need is what happens outside of those eight to five hours, right? How are you connecting with people or getting a chance to build a community when it's not built into the regimen or the kind of the the book of what these programs look like? And so the students I work with these days tend to come from non traditional connections. not the ones I'm meeting as interns in programs. There's one, and this is going to sound ridiculous, I'm not recommending this at all, there's one that I met in a parking lot And she told me she was living in a hotel because she's here for summer program and had no money and couldn't find a place in two minutes of talking. I was like, just come with me. I've got a spare room. Just come with me. Probably reckless. But we met, you know, on government property. So I figured there's some level of safety there. And that student. needed more than a nine to five has shown me how to build things sort of connection in life. They needed a bed. They needed a sense of home. They needed somebody they can talk to about Pokemon. And so I tend to find students in those situations. Sometimes we'll meet through the traditional programs, but where we really build, build our connection is the stuff that happens outside of the nine to five. And they become part of this Karass and I introduce them to other people. in the Karass as well. And so they go on to graduate school, they go on to start their careers and through kind of every step of that stage, they'll need something different. And we all do our best to help them for whatever they need during that part of their life.

Kristin: 23:42

Oh, that is so phenomenal. I don't know if you even realize like how awesome you are for these people and like how you're showing up for them. I mean, I look at my own, I have young adult children as well. Like I have a big age range from six to like my oldest ones are 21 and 23. And We are not set up necessarily if you don't have a family structure to support kids past 18. But kids at 18, I actually, when my kids turn 18, I call them faux adults because they're like a fake, like they're kind of an adult, like legally they're an adult, right? But like, You are not an adult at 18. You are a faux adult. There is so much. Your brain isn't even fully developed for like another seven, eight years. And there's so many pieces to just like learning how to apply for an apartment and learning how to grocery shop and learning how, and some of these things. And in some cases people have had to learn much earlier, you know, they've had to learn how to cook for themselves. It's a survival thing if they weren't like tight in it in a healthier way necessarily. But there are a lot of just things that come up as adults where you have to learn how to get car insurance, learn how to get renter's insurance, like learn how to to go to job interviews and then how to negotiate for yourself with your pay or how to work with your bosses. There's just like so many pieces of learning to adult and then you have relationship building things. So what if you meet someone and they might be your significant other and how do you feel about choosing whether you're going to get married or not or like there's just There's a lot of pieces of adulting that as a child who just wanted to grow up so quickly, I did not realize how hard it is. So I love that you are building that support. And my favorite part is that you are building it into a community. It's not you bringing one student in at a time and like helping that student and sending them on their way. It's you are bringing them into a community. Yeah. Making these other connections and you are broadening their network so that it isn't just you. And then you're able to do so much more for so many more people because as one person, we are limited in our capacity. But when we bring in a whole collective, there's just so much more that can be done. So I think that's so phenomenal.

Tanya: 26:08

Yep. And I love when, you know, those students or the people that have been brought into this, this community, this Karass. bring somebody else in. And so they've kind of gone off and they've seen the value of it, or it's been beneficial to them. And we built enough trust where they feel comfortable inviting somebody else in, or they know they can lean on us to help somebody else out. I, that's always my favorite part to see.

Kristin: 26:28

Absolutely. And so, do, does like everyone call it the Karass Is there like a group Or is it just like your term for what it is? Or is it like, hey, welcome to the Karass. Like, here's your t shirt. Like, I don't know.

Tanya: 26:40

No, no, it's kind of an informal term I use. Usually when I meet somebody, I'll explain that I'm trying to cultivate the Karass and what it is, but we're not, we don't have some secret code or t shirt, so we're not saying, hey, you should join the Karass. We're not that cool.

Kristin: 26:53

I mean, you always can make a t shirt. No, I think that's the greatest thing. And I love the idea of people then being so comfortable and so enriched that they want to pay it forward by bringing someone else in. That is especially phenomenal. So you have this, you've built yourself a family. Like a beautiful family structure. Do you have contact with your biological family still?

Tanya: 27:18

I do, yeah. Limited contact with my mother just for childhood reasons. But my siblings and I are all really close. I'm the oldest, the youngest is 20 years for me. So there's a huge span across us. And it's interesting because I would say things have stabilized there. Okay. As much as they can compared to when I was growing up. So she's having a very, for the best, a very different childhood than me. So I always kind of have to be a little mindful when I'm interacting with her to not, Project any of any my past experiences on onto, you know what she's currently going through and making sure I'm not being negative anyway or anything like that, but we're all really close. We see each other frequently. We're all about to meet up in a few six weeks for a little mini family trip. So we're, I think we're in a good place at the moment.

Kristin: 28:05

I am so glad to hear that because it, it can go any direction and I'm glad that things are more stable for your home, but I can see how that's tricky. I mean, I even see for myself, there are things that I wish I had done differently. So much. I have learned. I became a mom at 22 and I had my last baby on my 40th birthday. And there are some things that I think I actually did better as a young mom, to be honest. I did like the cutest summer homeschool things. And there were things I was able to do that were really great, but there are just things that I didn't really understand about boundaries. The things that I didn't understand about emotional intelligence, there were, there were a lot of pieces that I had not yet figured out as well. And thankfully, I think because she's seen my effort, like I have a very close relationship with my oldest daughter, this her having to have been the guinea pig in our family situation, which I don't think is the same as yours because I think, you know, I think you've experienced more difficult things in your mother daughter relationship than my daughter has. And so there's no like comparison. You have to do the thing that brings you peace and where you and. I know there's been a lot of pushback when you see online, there are people who have cut off contact with grandparents or with parents or whatever. And then there are other people who are like, they're family, you should always allow them to do every, you know, like they're family. And I'm like, well, I also think that healthy boundaries mean that you get to keep yourself safe and someone is related to you by blood. You get to keep yourself safe. That doesn't that that actually is a storyline that continues traumatic events in families when there's really severe wounding and there's no consequences and we all just pretend like it's okay. So, you know, I. Commend you for finding the path that you need to for healing because you're clearly in this place where you are going out and putting so much good into the world and that your focus is in putting good into the world both in a relationship in a community building place and in the work that you're doing as a scientist with NASA and with your own business and taking, you know, I'm just amazed. I think you're awesome. Thank you.

Tanya: 30:35

I think a lot of it for me to get it. Being the comfort I'm in today has come down to acceptance. When I say that word to people, they interpret it as like, you've let yourself be defeated or you're just saying it is what it is. For me, I think I was in denial for a long time about the reality of the situations and what everything was. And being able to say out loud, you know, actually, here's what happened. I'm not saying it was okay. And I'm not saying, you know, I'm comfortable with it. But I'm acknowledging it and now I'm letting it go, you know, not going to live in the past, not going to let it interfere with any of the things I'm trying to accomplish now. And I just kind of let it all live in that bucket of acceptance. And I apply that to all areas of my life. When I'm sick, there are days I just accept, you know, you're sick. You're going to have to take the day off and that's hard and maybe you'll have to take the week off and just lay down and rest, but that's what's best for my body. And you don't have to keep trying to push through it, you, I just have to accept it. I don't like it, but I, you know, I accept it and I just want to live over in this bucket of acceptance. And that's, that's kind of how I get through things.

Kristin: 31:45

I think that's a very powerful concept, though it has to do a little bit even like with the serenity prayer, you know that we accept the things that we cannot change and that we are able to discern the things that we can so that you're putting your focus on the things that you actually can change because when we look back, we can't change our childhoods. We can't change the state that our body is presenting to us in that very moment. We can do the best we can to build healthier habits and whatever, but People who have healthy habits also have health problems too. Like it doesn't, it doesn't immunize you against any kind of issue in your body just because you're actually actively working on sleeping and moving your body and eating good foods and whatever. There's, there's only so much you can do and so I love the idea of what you're looking at what can I control.

Tanya: 32:35

What

Kristin: 32:36

in my power and I'm going to just put all my energy there and not waste my energy on fighting against things that I can't change acceptance means I'm just going to let it go. Like I love the acceptance bucket. Like I can't change what this other person did. I can't change the way my body feels today. These are the things they can't change. So like, why would I want to take my limited time and energy on this earth? and spend them in the, you know, in the non acceptance bucket and just staring at the bucket where I can't do anything about it. I'm just staring at it. If you accept it, you can put all of your energy into moving forward and into creating the beautiful life that you're creating. I think that's awesome. So when you got started, I love also what's so inspiring about your story is that you didn't finish high school and you didn't make it through college the first time. And here you are working for NASA and doing these amazing things. And I think so often, I identify with in a neurodivergent community, I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 41. And sometimes there are things and I didn't, for me, I was able to go through school and that I didn't have roadblocks there. It was just a mess behind the scenes always. But there have definitely been times in my life where I couldn't finish the thing I wanted to do for whatever reason. And I just, you're hitting roadblocks. And I think being able to say, but look, it, it has nothing to do with your intelligence because clearly they don't hire people who aren't intelligent to work for NASA. So like, I don't have to see your, you know, your IQ testing to know that, that you've made it into a great, a great group of people. And. Sometimes we still have these life roadblocks, but if we want to persevere and keep trying and try again and reach out, I love that you reached out and asked the Dean for another chance and that they gave you that chance.

Tanya: 34:42

People, people are more willing to help than we give them credit for. They're not mean or not everybody's out to get you. If you knock on somebody's door, most of them are willing to give you a chance, but you do have to be the one that knocks on the door. They're not going to, they're not just going to come to you if they don't know what you're Going through and that's hard because it's it's hard to communicate and sometimes we're just drained of energy or it's really personal. We don't want to share experiences. And so it's not always easy to put your steps out there to do so. But most of the time, if you can find a way to to go forward with it, people will be there for you. And I think humans deserve more credit than we give them.

Kristin: 35:19

And I think I love the attitude that you're portraying here because I think that also what we're looking for is what we're going to find.

Tanya: 35:28

Yeah,

Kristin: 35:29

and you are going out into the world believing and maybe you couldn't believe that when you were six

Tanya: 35:34

Yeah.

Kristin: 35:35

In a process. But now the, the energy in which you're showing up in the world is there are a lot of good people out there. They want to help me. They want to help others. They want to help my friends. They want to help the Karass. They want to be there for me. They just need the opportunity. They need me to explain to them what's going on. Sometimes it does require vulnerability. I'm sure there was vulnerability in the letter that you wrote. Because you weren't just like, Hey, like, I think you should let me go to your school. You know, it was, it was probably a very vulnerable piece to say, this is where I've been, but this is where I want to go. Could you give me a chance?

Tanya: 36:12

Yep. And you know, it's not always going to work out. I'm not saying you knock on the door and then all your answers, you know, your prayers will be answered and there'll be rainbows. But if that person says no, or that community says no, whoever says no, there are other doors out there. And maybe the second door will say no. The third door will say no. I'm, I'm gone. a pile of rejection letters from other things I've applied to. The first time I tried to get into NASA to become a full time employee, I got turned down. You just, you just got to keep knocking and it's exhausting. Sometimes you can take a break in the middle of that, you know, get, just let yourself breathe and kind of recalibrate. Yeah, just, just got to keep doing it.

Kristin: 36:48

I think that resilience, that willingness to go back, it makes such a difference. We had some friends and my husband went to graduate school. We had some really good friends and he, the dad of the, or the, the guy in the family, Whit, he was going to school to become a veterinary surgeon. So he does like heart surgery on dogs and super brilliant. And his wife, I remember telling me about how everyone always thought that Whit was like so privileged because all these things worked out for him and the world just seemed to work out for him. And she said shortly after they'd gotten married, they went to China to teach English, like on an adventure.

Tanya: 37:26

And

Kristin: 37:27

they got there and the people were basically like, yeah, so we don't have housing for you, but you can go find some. And it was really hard actually to find housing. And she was just, Not really wanting to continue to knock all these doors and do whatever, but that Whit was convinced they were going to find a place, they were going to find a place that day, they didn't need to stay in a hotel, you know, like, they could do it, and it took all day. So she said, but people look at it and they're like, see, he found a place on the first day. You know, like the way that people look from the outside, they don't see his tenacity and his grit willingness. Yes. He did find a place on the whole, the first day because it took the whole day. Whereas other people would try three places and then be like, Oh, stay in a hotel tonight. So it might've taken a lot longer, but he was just willing to keep knocking. And I see that in your story and in your life story and the way that you're moving through life. You just kept knocking. And if that door didn't work, then you went to the next door and the next door to be where you are today, which I think is just phenomenal. Thank you.

Tanya: 38:41

It's, it's been a long road, but I'm happy with where, where it's at, where it's landed.

Kristin: 38:46

So is there anything along the way in particular that people have done that has made it harder, that has been unhelpful in community? That we could like kind of like watch out for these things and try not to do them and have a warning to

Tanya: 39:02

the

Kristin: 39:02

rest.

Tanya: 39:04

And it's, it's, it's a stereotypical cliche thing and I don't have a solution for it. But being a woman in a male dominated field has been challenging. You almost have to prove yourself in a way that your male colleagues don't have to prove themselves, even down to your appearance, you know, my colleagues will show up. I don't experience this really a NASA, but these are places I've worked before my colleagues will show up like they haven't showered in four days and nobody bats an eye. Right. If you're a disheveled looking woman who just. isn't into a full glam makeup or something and just you'll get certain comments or smirks or judgments or it's and it's just little things like that that seem like these little nuances or minor details but they're minor details that only women I think have to battle and that play an important role or if it's the opposite you know if you put a lot of attention into the way you look and some people like to do that and I think that's wonderful then you get judged for that as well right Oh, she's just hired because of her appearance, then you have to even kind of work harder to prove that you're a capable engineer, no matter your qualifications, if you have a PhD or if you worked at NASA, it doesn't matter, they think you've just had this sort of pretty, pretty privilege to get your way through the life, and I think a lot, it's not fair, a lot of that comes from insecurity on their side I think a lot of that comes from outdated beliefs and old ways of thinking. I tend to find that happens more with a certain age range than it does with the newer generation. I've had instances where Oh, I was in a machine shop building something and I, there's these two guys kind of a couple feet away talking and I recognized the conversation was about a project that I'm working on and so I chimed in and the guy told me, oh honey, why don't you go back to trying to solve your little pipe? And I was like, that, that's such an inappropriate comment that would never be said to a male. And I wasn't even allowed to enter the conversation. And when I tried to explain that to HR, you know, how do you capture the tone of something, or how do you capture the moments of something? It just kind of got swept under the rug. And so there's just not even, I was never really given a chance to be a part of that community just because of my gender or because of my appearance. And that's hard. I don't know what the solution for that is. I think that's a systemic problem. I think that's a them problem, not an us problem. I think that's a change that men need to acknowledge and need to do something about. I think it's unfair that it's placed on women to try to find solutions for their behavior. It's one of the biggest, I think, roadblocks and hurdles that I've repeatedly had to face throughout the earlier part of my career.

Kristin: 41:44

That is so frustrating and just wrong. And I think that there is power and, and it is wrong for women to have to be the solution to a male problem, to be honest. But I love that you're still there and you're showing up and you're in the machine shop and you're in all the places because even just having more women be there can make a difference. Yeah, because if you start looking around and it isn't just all the old boys club and I'm, I am happy to hear that the coming generation seems to be doing a better job of that. That isn't so ingrained and to be open because girls can be scientists too, and they can be phenomenal at it. I

Tanya: 42:30

I always tell girls. You can be whatever you don't have to choose. At least when I was brought up, it's like you can be the cheerleader or you can be the scientist, right? And it's like, yes, but you can be both. If you want to be a princess on Saturday and you want to go play in the chemistry lab on Monday, you don't have to be ashamed of either parts of yourself, right? You can be all those things. You don't have to narrow yourself down into this one little group. And I. I don't know. I wish I would have kind of had that openness when I was growing up rather than believing I kind of had to choose a certain area to fit in, that I couldn't be all the things I wanted to be.

Kristin: 43:05

I think that's so important. And I think that most of us have varied interests, and I don't like having people be pigeonholed and labeled. And sometimes we even go through, you know, different identity as we get older, where there are things that really interested us in our 20s. Like now I'm sitting in my mid 40s, and I'm in a different space that I couldn't have anticipated being here but having the space to be able to grow into the really awesome parts of us. That are varied and different and, and being able to recognize that, that we can go wherever we feel called to be. You know, I love, I love being able to have conversations that I'm sitting in this big van as a mom of like a huge family like our everyday experience is so different. The way you get up and get ready and go to work and like you're solving these other and what I do and I get up and do carpools and do like we are coming from different life experiences, but at the heart of it, there's this common humanity. Where we're trying to create community wherever we go, we're trying to breathe life into people and help them see the possibilities in themselves, that they can go after what their dreams are. And if their dream is to be a teacher, or to be a cheerleader or to be a scientist, you can go after any and all of them and you maybe can't do them all at the same time. But that there is a world of possibility out there and we can get there more easily when we do it in community and support each other. I wouldn't be here without the community that supports and lifts me up. I mean, even starting a podcast was a big deal for me and I never thought I would have a podcast, but it's been so enriching and such a beautiful experience. And I'm grateful that I had people to help me even learn the little ins and outs and like where to go and how to learn about editing and just the things that. I hadn't come across yet and I've learned a lot of new information and new ways of doing it and and it's thanks to the people around me who have helped point the way. Yep,

Tanya: 45:12

that does seem to be a string of commonality across whatever pocket of life we find ourselves in, right? Just that common denominator when you talk to the people that are successful or the people that are happy or the people that are comfortable and feel good about the place they're in. You will hear that a lot. You know, it's because of what I, the support and the energy and those that I have around me.

Kristin: 45:36

And I think you can find it even if it isn't there for you easily. I didn't always feel like I had a community. I did have good family support, although I think sometimes maybe I wasn't always understood. I think I was supported, but sometimes I was like, why would you do that? I don't know, but I didn't for a lot of years. I wasn't as good at leaning into community. I could create community around me, but not be vulnerable enough to actually feel like I belonged to the community that I created, if that makes sense. Like, there was a change in me that was needed before I could actually access the power of community even though I was creating pockets of it where other people were engaging because of what I brought together and they were benefiting. I was almost like an observer of the communities that I created. I hadn't learned how to be vulnerable enough. I always felt like I was the one who had to do it all for, you know, and like save everyone a little bit. And I don't know, I think I was coming from like good intentions, but there was a place in me that wasn't healed enough to be able to participate fully.

Tanya: 46:54

There's something about doing stuff for ourselves where We, we've kind of been, I don't know, programmed is the word, but made to feel like it's selfish or it's not something we can do. I had a friend point something out the other day. We were at a friend's house for dinner and she started washing the dishes at her friend's house, cleaning up afterwards. And she stopped and she goes, you know, I have no problem washing the dishes, other people's house, but I hate doing it at my own. And it's just something that like, you want to do things for others so easily, but putting that energy in to do something for your own self, even when it's just down to washing a fork, it's just, it's much harder.

Kristin: 47:29

I agree with you so much. And it's easier if you have a community doing it. You had someone, at least for a time period, you had the student living with you. If you were to go to do the dishes together, it feels so much easier than if you were to just go to do the dishes alone, living alone, or even if you live with multiple people, but you're doing all the dishes alone. If someone else is there and is working on. I've actually just been studying the observer effect as a piece of quantum physics and trying to understand. If that correlates, really, if I'm making a stretch that's like not good science, or if there's actually like scientific implications that work for human behavior as well, when we witness someone else in their pain, in their struggle, in their, in their getting their chores done, we body double, is that the observer effect as a part of quantum physics, or is that actually something different, but it kind of has a similar principle. Like, I don't want to apply bad science. Do you know what I mean? No,

Tanya: 48:31

A lot of quantum physics boils down to like statistical thermodynamics and mechanics. And there is some truth into absorbing the energy and behaving based on what's in your surroundings. There's, there's an influence there. There's like a push pull effect, you know, depending on, we'll say, that particle or that human is, you're going to respond to it differently. If that force around you is strong, it's going to pull you in, right? It's going to, it's going to overcome you or it's going to influence you. If you've got a lot of internal strength yourself and that force around you is weak, or if you've got a lot of resistance, it's not going to have enough will or power to help you out or to pull you. So that's, I think it's very relatable to, to quantum physics.

Kristin: 49:13

I'm glad, because science wasn't ever, it was something I could do. I could get good grades in it. It just didn't pique my interest the way literature did and writing that like that was just where my heart was and where my passion was. So I didn't do as much with science or retain as much because it just wasn't the thing that piqued my interest. So that I've been like really I've been watching these different science videos and I'm like trying to really get into that. The observer effect and understand and I was like, am I just making You know, a symbolism here that is doesn't really work, or does this analogy work in human behavior because you experience it you feel it you can feel the energy when someone walks in, they haven't said anything they haven't done anything. There is. an energy that people bring into the room. And I don't know how to quantify that because I'm not a physicist or I'm not whatever, but, but I know how to feel it in my body. And I know when I watch humans interact with each other, there is a power in having someone witness your story. When you tell your story in a room alone, versus if you tell your story to someone who's interested and engaged, there's a shift that takes place. When people perceive as they are, and is that the observer effect? I don't know. Or is it just something different?

Tanya: 50:35

I don't know. I'd have to think deeply about that. I completely agree. If I'm just talking to myself, I, I've got one level of caring or one level of like the amount of what am I going to put into this story? But around the right person. I want to be more open about it. I want to share more. I'm actually more engaged. I'm more excited and more happy to do it. And it, you know, it depends, like you said, 100 percent on that person, what sort of energy they're giving off and how they're reciprocating. Are they actually listening with intent? I always say that. Or are they just like just being polite and courteous, which is okay, too. You know, what's what's the actual kind of vibe of the conversation.

Kristin: 51:14

I'm going to, I'm going to keep pondering this. If you have any further thoughts on it and you're working in the lab and you're like, wait, this part does relate. I'll let you know. Like, is this quantum physics? I'm just at the very baby stage of that and trying to understand, could that energy be quantified? With people's interactions with each other. Like, it's gotta be like real, it's gotta be science. We feel it, we know it's there. But how do you measure or quantify it? And I don't know if that's possible with our level of human understanding. It fascinates me. That's the part of science that fascinates me. It's the part that relates directly to humans and human behavior. Specifically. So I love that. And I think that I find so much power in podcasting and sharing stories and talking to people about what's really going on in their lives. I just think those conversations are so powerful. They changed me. They make me a better person. And I love the more diverse the story, the better. I like to talk to people who aren't having my same life experience. It helps me to be more aware of how I can support my friends who are in a different space than I am. It helps me to think more critically, like living in an echo chamber never served any of us.

Tanya: 52:25

Yeah. Most of the closest people to me in life. have no science background, no engineering backgrounds. And it's because I want to make sure I'm not limiting myself to that. I don't want to limit myself to that worldview. The way you're going outside of your comfort zone and what your interests are to look more into the world of science. I do that with poetry and writing. I go read poems and I go read essays and I really like children's books and I surround myself with a lot of artists. I surround myself with a lot of mechanics and it's intentional because I want to make sure I have a broader worldview I want to make sure that I'm trying to understand different people better, and that I'm building relationships outside of a lab.

Kristin: 53:03

Oh, I think that's so beautiful, and I love the way you're intentional about it. That you're recognizing, like, I need to go after this. Like, science is in your everyday life, you don't have to do anything, you're not working for that. That's what's in front of you.

Tanya: 53:16

And if

Kristin: 53:16

you want to have a more rich human experience, we have to go after the things that aren't in our everyday life and talk to the people that aren't experiencing what we're experiencing and be open to new world views. You know, we talked about that. We really don't talk about politics, but being able to listen to People who see the political world different than you do or people who have a different background in terms of what their religious experience has been or their beliefs or whatever. I just find, I think I am a better human the more I talk to people who aren't like me. It's a reminder of, despite that there are these diversities, there's so much that's common. Everybody wants to be seen. Everybody wants to be heard. Everybody wants to feel like they're leaving value in this world. Everyone has that. And when you can connect to that, all the other stuff just makes the world more interesting.

Tanya: 54:17

Yeah, at the core, we all want the same things to an extent. You know, they can all boil down to the same couple of things. And giving yourself the opportunity to get out there and kind of pursue those core things and make sure they're fulfilled and your buckets are full. You're only helping, you're helping yourself, right? You're, you're doing good for yourself, which, which I'm a huge fan of.

Kristin: 54:39

Absolutely. Well, I love that. Now, I just want to ask you, if we had a billboard that magically everyone in the world would see, what message do you think the world needs right now?

Tanya: 54:50

I would tell people, I would boil it down To three words and the three words would be give yourself grace and I just think there's it's hard there's so much pressure on us to feel like we have to be non stop on the go all the time or to feel like we have to be these perfect humans or just so much pressure to feel like we have to be yada yada yada and I think allowing yourself to be what you want to be and forgiving yourself for the moments where you're not perfect, right? Or letting yourself have those moments where you need to take a break and not feel guilty about it. If you need to spend a day or two or five on a couch binge watching reality TV and eating pizza, give yourself the grace to do so. And I think that message should be spread more, more than it is, or almost as equally as people are saying, you know, grind, grind, grind. There needs to be some balance there, and I don't think that's incorporated enough, at least not in American society.

Kristin: 55:50

I agree with you. And the thing is that I'm learning through hard experience after many years of kind of hustling for my worth for myself and being into being an achiever, you actually are more productive overall, more creative and happier when you take that downtime. even serves a productive purpose. And people are writing books about it, books about play, books about sleep, books about different ways to rest. But if you don't do those things, you are less creative, you are less effective, you are less efficient, and you feel worse. So giving yourself that grace to understand what your needs are. I think that's so important. And giving yourself the grace to know that when I was 20, I did the best I could with what I had when I was 20. And when I was 30, I did the best I could with what I had when I was 30. So I can give those versions of myself grace, even when they showed up in ways that I wouldn't now, because I really did the best that I could with what I had at that time. And as we learn better, we can do better.

Tanya: 56:57

And

Kristin: 56:59

it gives other people permission to grow too, so I think that's awesome. Are there any other final thoughts you'd want to leave with our listeners?

Tanya: 57:07

I, I just, you know, I really am a firm believer in going easy on yourself and repeating that message over and over again. And to know that anything I say here is what worked for me, it's not the ultimate equation that's going to lead you to whatever you're after. So go out there and listen to what has worked for different people and kind of pick and pull and try different parts and find what the best path is for you. Cause there's not going to be a copycat answer that's going to get you immediately to where you want to be.

Kristin: 57:36

I think that's awesome. That's awesome advice. Really, like one, I think people could listen and say, wait, go easy on yourself. But you're a NASA scientist and you're starting a business and it looks like you're not going easy on yourself. But what you're doing is you're caring for yourself so much that then you're able to do the things you're passionate about in business and have the bandwidth for that. Yeah,

Tanya: 58:01

well, and and because the community I can I'm not doing these things alone, right? I've got partners in my business that are doing other areas of work within the company as well. And with the NASA, I've got a team working for me. So it's not like I'm carrying all this weight on my shoulders. I've got this community around me that allows me to be able to take it easier or go spend the evening on the couch. And they build that into their lives as well, because we're not all just putting everything onto one person.

Kristin: 58:25

Ah, I love that. Community really, it's the answer to so many things. It really is. So thank you so much for your time today. I feel like I've learned a lot and I love watching people learn to build community because it helps me to be more mindful of what the important pieces are. I love what you're building. Kudos to you for Getting to the place where you are and continuing to move forward and building such a beautiful community around you. That's phenomenal. So

Tanya: 58:55

no, thank you. And thanks for letting me share my story. And for listening to me with intent. It was a pleasure talking to you.

Kristin: 59:01

My pleasure.

59:03

Outro Music

Kristin: 59:07

Okay, so in the intro, I didn't even warn you about the Karass and how cool that is. Tanya is such a community builder and of course, I love all the other really interesting parts of her story, but I really love her heart and I really love that as soon as she was given the opportunity to see that there was a better way to connect in human relationships that she took that and she ran with it. I mean, I low key kind of want to be a part of the Karass, but we are separated and live in completely different states, kind of somewhat across the country. So that's not very realistic, but. What a blessing Tanya is to all of those people and that she allows them to be a blessing to her. So again, this paint is really cool. I've been to the Kickstarter and for as low as like 10, you can get samples of this paint and anywhere between 10 and 50 are different price amounts for different amounts of the paint, different varieties of colors and whatnot. I think it's really cool. And I love the ingenuity that she has there. so if this is something that sounds interesting to you and you want to Do your part in a small way to maybe help the planet. Go to the show notes, click on that kickstarter, and buy yourself some paint. Or at the very least, make a donation, even if it's small, in order to help this cause. And I hope that you are inspired that no matter how many false starts you get in life, that someone can go from being a high school dropout and then a college dropout and then a PhD. If you look back at your life and you're thinking, I, I've had chances and I, I didn't do what I thought I should do, or I didn't make it. You can try again and you can move forward and you can still create so much beauty in your life if you just keep knocking on those doors. And if you do, and if you persevere. The right doors will open for you, and you can have your own success story. And I hope if you do, you will seek me out, and you will share it with me because I love these stories. And I especially love how whenever I see someone really reach the pinnacle to where they want to be, it always involves community. Sometimes that's the secret ingredient that's missing. So lean into that wherever you can. And if you liked this episode and it resonated with you, please follow Solidarity Sister. Sometimes, depending on the platform you're using, it might look like follow show, it might look like subscribe, but do whatever it takes to make sure no matter where you're getting your podcasts from, you'll be notified every time there is a new episode. Thank you for being part of the Solidarity Sister community. We needed you.