Finding Joy in Life's Trials With Becca Ingersoll | Ep 50

Becca Ingersoll has been through struggles with infertility, a long NICU stay, and was the mama of a childhood cancer warrior during the worldwide pandemic. Yet, despite these challenges, Becca has focused on keeping an active gratitude practice and leaning into community.  I learned a lot from her.

Registration to Becca's R, R, & R (Rest, Relaxation, and Reading) Retreat in June is open! It's for moms who have/have had kids with childhood cancer, medical needs, and/or special needs. Here's the link to register: https://forms.gle/7oKns8K1KpeLc8D87

You can find Becca at:

My Blog: https://mercy-rose.com/
My Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/blingersoll/
My Patreon: patreon.com/TheMercyRoseSociety
My Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-joy-through-lifes-trials/id1724570400

About Becca:

Becca Ingersoll defines herself as a daughter of God, a wife, and a twin mom who's chosen to focus on blessings in life even when life is hard. She's a writer, blogger, podcaster, and advocate who's passionate about helping others know that they aren't alone. Her battles with infertility, having micro-preemie NICU babies, and having a son get diagnosed with leukemia have armed her with first-hand knowledge of how to help lift others up and out of the trenches.

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If you're a woman who appreciates connecting with other women in community with vulnerability and compassion, please join us in the Solidarity Sister! Facebook group at:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/716800349946338/

The Solidarity Sister! Book Club has begun and runs through the end of May. We're reading Brené Brown's Gifts of Imperfection over a period of 15 weeks, and connecting via Zoom and Marco Polo. Find more info in the FB group. Sign up at https://forms.gle/ZHpfhd8hwCpw6NL2A

FB: The Solidarity Sister Podcast
IG: @solidaritysister.kristinwilson 

Transcript

Becca: 0:00

I love the quote by. Marjorie Pay Hinkley, who, she says something along the lines of, you have to either laugh or cry. I prefer laughing. Crying gives me a headache. It's like, you know, those trials happen anyway, and we have the choice to choose to respond to whatever is happening in our lives. And if we, I mean, don't get me wrong, I am not a saint by any means, there are plenty of times when I am in the depths of despair, to quote Ann Shirley, but when you try to focus on the positive, then it just makes you enjoy each day a little bit more, even if it's really hard.

Kristin: 0:45

Hello and welcome to another episode of Solidarity Sister with Kristin Wilson. This is really exciting, you guys. This is the 50th episode and I am celebrating by putting it out late. I mean, really that wasn't the plan, but it's May and it's crazy and we're all just doing the best we can to hang on. I still have seven children at home and the amount of dance recitals, dance pictures, soccer games, choir concerts, music video recordings, just. It's so many things. The Wax Museum, where one of my kids is Jane Austen and I'm trying to find a costume. Like this is just real life in May. But I'm super excited for you to still get to listen to this episode that I recorded with Becca Ingersoll. Becca has her own podcast. She has her own blog. She is super into reading and I, as you know, if you are a listener here at all, I am super into audio books. I used to read a lot more print books, but my life is such now that audio books just make more sense most of the time. Becca has such a tremendous outlook on life. She has faced some major trials and she does such a great job of not minimizing those trials, but Also not allowing them to put her in a space that keeps her from experiencing the joy that is still to be found in everyday life. You're going to be inspired by her. You're going to get some tangible ideas about how you can bring moments of more joy into your own life. And it was just really a great conversation and I'm excited for you to hear it.

2:28

Outro Music

Kristin: 2:32

Hello and welcome to another episode of Solidarity Sister with Kristin Wilson. And today I have Becca Ingersoll, who I met through my podcasting community and I have just been so impressed with her. I love the energy and the life that she brings to everything and her perspective. She has a podcast called Finding joy through life's trials, which is something that we all can benefit from. So Becca, tell me, how are you doing today for real?

Becca: 3:02

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Kristin. I just have to say really quickly before I answer your question, I'm so excited to be here and talk to you. We have kept trying to meet in person because we both live in the same state and it hasn't happened yet, but I have so much in common with you. And I'm so excited. I'm going to try to let you lead the conversation because I have so many things I want to ask you, but I'll have you on my show as well. But anyway, how am I doing for real right now? I was thinking about this question and I kind of feel like I am tentatively optimistic about the upcoming week and month I've been so one thing I have in common with you is I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and I never would have considered myself impulsive like there were so many things that I thought of in the ADHD realm that, oh, I'm not that I'm not that I'm not that. But as I'm getting older, and especially since I've been diagnosed, I've been like, Oh, that totally relates. And one of my impulsive things is I get an idea I'm super excited about, and I want to do it like right then. And so, and they're in, in my mind, being impulsive, sometimes was a bad negative connotation. But for me, it's things like, Oh, yeah, I'll help this nonprofit. Oh, yeah, I can do this for this person. And I'll, yeah, I'll start a book club and just all sorts of things. And so, recently, all of these things have been coming to a head and I actually have to follow through on all of the things I have committed to, and so I've been a little bit overwhelmed. But, I'm optimistic that I can do it with God's help.

Kristin: 4:44

I love that. And I relate, it's like the ADHD hobby. Like sometimes it's, I can serve this person. I can do this thing for this person. And sometimes for me, it's like, I had a daughter go on a Trek experience years ago when we lived in Illinois, and they did it a little bit differently than is more common in Utah. And for those people who've never heard of Trek, it's basically like, Cosplay for members of the Church of Jesus Christ. surrounding Pioneer ancestry. So you're holding a handcart or you're, you know, a lot of times it's a five gallon bucket and they did more of a winter encampment that kind of feel for that. And it was just the girls. I was like, I am going to knit my daughter this beautiful hat and scarf that match. And they were actually Amazing. Yeah. I use this really great yarn. It was her favorite color. And I was like, that's it. I am a knitter. Like I am going to knit. Like this is what I do now. I have knitted zero items. If you're at all like me, the ADHD part, it's like this impulsivity and this ability to believe that you can do whatever it is. Like, I have never knitted before in my life, but surely I can pull off this beautiful thing. And I actually did. So like,

Becca: 6:03

So you don't have the negative of, oh, well, that was a fail. Yeah.

Kristin: 6:07

Once I'm reasonably proficient, then it's boring. And I never want to do that again. So I also made really beautiful custom jewelry. I've done that in years. I have done several things that I'm like, I'm going to do this. We had a nonprofit thing. We did some things with that. And I was a runner. I went all the way till I ran a marathon. Wow. Anymore, like, because I conquer, you know, so it's interesting to look through my life before I was diagnosed and be like, no, I just like to try things and then be like, Well, yes, but also there's kind of an explanation here. Like I can see it play out and all the things. And, and that was one thing in starting this podcast. I had a lot of discussions with my husband because I've now recognized this in myself and I'm like, but do I really like, am I really going to follow through with this? Am I going to get, you know, and, and the reason why. We talked a lot about, could I still do this? It was really because the one overarching theme of my whole life that I've never let go of is connecting with people and bringing them together in community. That is something that I have been doing my whole life. And so we're like, okay, if we keep the topic broad enough, because I can talk about anything. We can talk about ADHD. We can talk about, you know, infertility. We can talk about betrayal trauma. We can talk about. Anything we want to talk about, we keep it broad enough. And then we're connecting and building community. That is like the one thing that I have had in my whole life. So I'm like, okay, I think I can stick with this podcasting thing. Everything else. There's really no guarantees. Right?

Becca: 7:53

Right. I love that so much community as a big part of my message as well. Pretty much any interview I do, or like when someone asks how have I gotten through the difficult challenges in my life? One of the answers is always that I've had a community of support that, and that's one reason why I started my podcast is I never want people to feel alone. You are never alone. And there are communities available that help make life easier.

Kristin: 8:21

Yes. So let's dive into that with you. Where has community been helpful for you? The challenges that you face, like, let's, let's jump in there.

Becca: 8:29

Let's just go there. Well, the first place I actually just listened to, I think it was your most recent episode where it talked about infertility. Was that your most recent one? And so that is part of my story as well. So my husband and I tried for, once we started trying to conceive, we tried for five years before we were able to get pregnant. And as you can imagine in this Very family focused community or culture of being LDS. It was very difficult. So we both come from relatively big families. Josh is one of six kids. I'm one of five. And no one other, I have one sister in law who struggled with miscarriages and things like that, but other than that, like everyone else just was able to get pregnant, like that, like snap of a finger. And it seems like we were surrounded for five years by people announcing pregnancies and having babies and we were praying and doing all the quote unquote right thing. But not being able to conceive and it was really, really challenging and isolating because like your last guest said, it's something that luckily is getting better, but it's kind of a taboo topic even still, and when I was going through it, you know, a decade ago, it was more so less talked about topic. So luckily I was able to join a Facebook group that was a local Facebook group. And they met and I was able to feel like I wasn't alone, you know, and find people who I could talk to one of my really good friends to this day I met virtually through this Facebook group, then the following trials that I've been through, same thing I've been able to connect with people often initially online, but then also, like, I prefer support groups that are online but also local so they meet up occasionally as well. And so like, one of my other trials that I've been through is that one of my twin boys that we were miraculously able to conceive, Lincoln when they were three years old, he got diagnosed with leukemia. So he is in remission now, and we are so blessed and he has an excellent prognosis of his cancer never returning. But he was diagnosed just a couple months before everything shut down with the pandemic. And so between that and him already being immunocompromised and us trying to keep him safe, it would have been so much more isolating if I hadn't had an amazing local support Facebook group that I was able to. You know, talk to and where we are some of the closest, one of the closest knit communities I've ever had. We support each other, we cry with each other, we, yeah, they're like a

Kristin: 11:17

family. Is that a cancer focused?

Becca: 11:19

Mm hmm, yeah, so that one, it's for moms in Utah who have a child who's been diagnosed with cancer.

Kristin: 11:27

Okay. And so you connected with them just as the outset of the shutdown and everything and that made it more difficult. I would imagine like both parents couldn't be there. Exactly. Things like that, there would have been like little places where it would have just been that much harder and more isolating. Yep, absolutely. You know, the lockdown, it changed everything.

Becca: 11:52

It changed everything. Like, a lot of people, I'm kind of telling my story out of order, but, so we got pregnant with our boys, and then, and we were so excited, and it was twins, we were elated, and then they decided to come early, so, I delivered them at 23 weeks, 6 days gestation, so, they each had, a 50 percent chance of survival, and they were in the NICU for almost 5 and a half months before we brought them home. So it was, that was another hard, but when people ask us, which was more difficult, the NICU experience or Lincoln's cancer, we always say cancer, which is a little bit ironic because he had a much higher chance of survival with the cancer than when he was first born. But I think the biggest thing there were several contributing factors, but one of them was. The pandemic made it so Josh and I weren't just literally weren't as able to be as much of a team because only one person to go to the hospital at any given time. With the NICU it was very, both of them were a team effort, obviously, and we have a great marriage and I'm so grateful for my husband, but just the physical. Being in the same room with our babies made getting through the NICU so much easier than having to take turns taking Lincoln to the hospital.

Kristin: 13:15

I mean, that makes a lot of sense because you are when you have a marriage where there's a team effort and a partnership, which not everyone has that sadly, but for people who do being together just makes the burden feel lighter.

Becca: 13:29

Yeah. Yep.

Kristin: 13:31

Absolutely. It doesn't change the burden. Like the burden is still the same. You're still facing the exact same trial you feel. And that's really the goal of marriage, right? It's this partnership. Absolutely. We lift each other and having to take turns. Yes. It's still a team effort because yes, you're both still supporting each other, but it's different. And, and also I would imagine there's more rehashing, right? Like both there in the doctor meeting. Yes, all the things you don't have to expend the energy to rehash what the team medical professional team just told you. Yes, you're doing cancer. I'd imagine there's a lot of information coming in and you have to take it all in and then you have to rehash it. So the partner gets to figure out what's going on. And there is emotional energy expended every time you rehash medical information. So true. Even though people care, they wanna be updated. They love you. It's your partner especially. You want them to know Yeah. Like the children's father. You know it matters. Yeah. But like there is a toll, There's a level of emotional energy that comes from having to articulate all of those things. You didn't have to do in the NICU.

Becca: 14:44

Yes. Thank you for. Giving voice to that and because I know you've lived it and I haven't been able to express that articulately before but it is so true because I would go to like clinic appointments with Lincoln, and there would be things said that I, I don't know I feel like Our communication, Josh and my communication was so much better both before and after the treatment because I was just done, just extended completely by the time I got home. And so I would give him, you know, the bullet points, but it wasn't the same as him knowing everything.

Kristin: 15:21

And then that means that you're holding that you're holding, you're not sharing the burden with him. Just you're holding onto that. And so you're not able to process it as much, have the energy to process it, but it's, it's, it's hard.

Becca: 15:36

It is. It's hard. And you know how you talked about, there's an energy exchange. Every time you talk about it, we understood that with like extended family. And that's one reason why we. Did Facebook posts and whatnot so that we would update everyone at one time. But like we had group Marco polos for each of our families and I kind of feel bad about it, but my sister in law at some point, like anytime we hadn't an update. We'd go on Marco Polo to get the information out and I have a sister in law who at one point she was like I almost have PTSD anytime I get a message from you on Marco Polo because so often it was negative news with Lincoln's treatment. I was like, Oh, I need to be better about updating. about good things too but it just became our go to way of sending out a news brief so to speak to the family.

Kristin: 16:26

it's hard, it is really hard and I haven't gone through cancer with any of my kids but I, I've watched people and it's From my outsider experience, it colors everything. It colors every moment of every day. Definitely. And so, it's really hard for you to process, Oh, and we also had this cute thing happen, or this fun thing, or whatever, because when you're wading in the midst of it, That is just the lens, everything in life you're seeing through the cancer lens.

Becca: 16:59

It's true. And that is one reason why with each of our trials, those are the, I mentioned the three big ones, infertility, and then the NICU, and then childhood cancer, Josh and I have been clear on trying to find the blessings. And that's why I have, I have a blog called Mercy Rose, and then the subtitle is the same as my podcast. Finding joy through life's trials, because if you don't focus on those blossoms instead of the thorns, then, oh, it's such a dark place to be in if you can't find the good things as well, even though, like you said, it's always there, the trial is always there, but you just have to find those glimmers of hope.

Kristin: 17:41

So what have you found has helped you to do that? Because I can imagine people listening and being like, Yeah, I hear you saying this, and like, yay that that worked for you, but like, I am in the dark place, and I am wading through the heart of this trial, and I can see nothing good. I don't even know if I have the energy to try, but if I did, what would I try?

Becca: 18:05

Yeah, absolutely. I think part of it comes with like with anything in life comes with practice. So like one thing that I have, I mean, I know you don't use video very often, but one thing I have is this like one line a day journal. I love it's the only consistent daily journaling practice I've been able to maintain because it just, each day just has like a few lines and you can use it as a gratitude journal. And when you are noticing just tiny little things, like Lincoln woke up happy, I'm talking about when he was going through treatment, Lincoln woke up happy and not nauseated today. That's a little mini blessing. And if you remember it and write it down, it helps you remember it again. And you see in life, what you're looking for. That's just the truth. So when you're focusing on the negative, you will see more negative things, but when you're consciously trying to see, so and so brought dinner to me today, or I was able to listen to this podcast episode that was inspiring or finish my audio book that, which I'm a huge reader. That's something else we have in common. Or my husband gave me time to really decompress and take a long bath today, you know, just All of those little things, if you focus on them, then you will see more of them.

Kristin: 19:34

I think that's so true. There's a saying that I don't know where it came from about how, where, where focus goes, energy flows. Yeah. And it really, you see it in every stage of your life, right? Like I never noticed people's engagement rings unless they're really super unique or super ostentatious and take up their whole hand. Right. Like I don't see them. Yeah. I'll tell you when I got engaged. Yeah. I saw every single engagement ring that ever came across in my peripheral vision from a field away. And I never noticed who was really pregnant. Like I wasn't cognizant of it until pregnancy, you know, that time came for me where I was thinking and really only for the first pregnancy. I don't think I even noticed after that, but I was so attuned to that. Or if you get a new car,

Becca: 20:25

that's what I was just going to say. Everyone

Kristin: 20:28

that has that car, you know, the last time I actually got a car that was going to be for my daily driver was a 12 passenger Nissan. And at the time, 10 years ago, We lived in Chicago land. Yeah. Not as common

Becca: 20:41

there.

Kristin: 20:41

So it was just me. Like I was really like, but occasionally I would see one and then Amazon out there bought a fleet of them like a decade ago, nine years ago or something. And so all of a sudden we'd be like, Oh, look, there's the, you know, those 12 passenger Nissan. We're not the only one, but then we moved to Utah and like tons of people have them here. Now we just more blend in, but we've just had ours longer than most of them. So yeah. Yeah, you're right. What we are focusing on, we are training our brain for that thing. I recently read a book called Change Your Questions, Change Your Life. Oh, I've heard of it. One of the things I liked about it was it talked about using questions to kind of change that. And so I think that sometimes telling our brain something, our brain is like, no. I think you changed it to a question of like, What good thing happened today? Or what service did someone do for me today? Or what small moment of peace did I feel today? Changing it to a question can help. I love that. Cool little book. How long does that book go for? Is it like one,

Becca: 21:48

It's a five year one, so it's five year.

Kristin: 21:50

So one book gives you five years.

Becca: 21:53

And it's so fun to, like, my sister in law has one as well. And we were, I recently did my first ever reading retreat, which was so fun. And one of the conversations we had was about journaling. Like I gave everyone a journal in the swag bag and stuff, but. It's so fun for this one line a day journal to go back and look at your other years like just naturally you open up to today to write about today and you can see what you've done the past several years if you've been keeping it for a while and it's just fun

Kristin: 22:22

is, it's fun to have that record. Yeah, to be able to look back and see, okay. And, you know, when we go through our hard times in life. They don't last forever. They don't feel like they're going to. Yes. You're looking at a five year journal. There are going to be seasons in there that really weren't so awful. Yep. For sure. And some that probably were, you know, we're five years, you'll get some of both. And yeah, so being able to kind of have that perspective, I think that's a really beautiful way to look at it and just starting small.

Becca: 22:56

Mm hmm. Yeah, that's the easiest way because I am someone, again, partially with ADHD, I can become paralyzed with when something seems like such a huge undertaking. It's only when I can do, hey, focus on the step in front of you, then the next step. So just start small. That's the only way I get things done.

Kristin: 23:17

It's hard to do if you have ADHD, because sometimes it's like you see all the steps at once and they are all telling you that they're of equal importance and they call you first. You're like, okay, that's that executive dysfunction piece, but if you are feeling mired in the pit of despair, one sentence a day, one thing that was positive. And actually there are studies around this. Most of the ones I've seen have you looking at three to five things that you can pull out of every day, but it actually does work to rewire the brain. There's neuroplasticity, real thing, and it actually rewires the brain and the more your brain is doing that, the more it is looking for those things. And I love that you're, you're not telling people that these things were easy. This is great because I could think about what I was grateful for. And so like, five and a half months in the NICU, that just flew on by. Right? No stress. Not like that. I'm sure. I'm sure it was agonizing.

Becca: 24:18

It was. There were very difficult times, but I'm sorry. I'm trying to pull up a quote that I shared on Instagram recently. Just in a story. I don't know if I can find it, but it says something along the lines of, oh, there it is. Being positive isn't pretending that everything is good. It's choosing to see the good in everything. Yeah. So that just sums it up.

Kristin: 24:42

And I think that's such a great outlook because here's the thing, we're going to go through life anyway. Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to happen anyway, so it's not like your excessive worrying slash stress slash, you know, upset slash pain is going to make the thing like less or get you out of the trial sooner. Yes.

Becca: 25:06

Yeah. Well, I love the quote by. Marjorie Pay Hinkley, who, she says something along the lines of, you have to either laugh or cry. I prefer laughing. Crying gives me a headache. It's like, you know, those trials happen anyway, and we have the choice to choose to respond to whatever is happening in our lives. And if we, I mean, don't get me wrong, I am not a saint by any means, there are plenty of times when I am in the depths of despair, to quote Ann Shirley, but when you try to focus on the positive, then it just makes you enjoy each day a little bit more, even if it's really hard.

Kristin: 25:48

Sure. That whole playing Pollyanna. My mom used to talk about playing Pollyanna a lot. You haven't read the book or seen the old cute movie with Hayley Mills, which I grew up on. I did too. She really does look for the positive things in life and, and has such a good attitude. Until it gets really hard and then she has people rally around her and reflect that light back to her, which I think is of value too. Absolutely. It's where that community piece really comes in because there are times where we maybe just can't see it.

Becca: 26:21

Absolutely. Yeah.

Kristin: 26:23

And that's where we need other people to see the light for us and describe it for us and help us keep faith that like it could be there. And we could reach for it again, even if we can't in that moment. So this community, so you've had these online groups, which also you've been lucky enough to find ones that were local. So you could meet up from time to time, which I think makes them a lot more powerful. Yeah. I think so. Online is great. Yeah. So much we can do online. And especially because. One of the silver linings from the pandemic was how much we learned how to better connect. Yes, so true. You know, the infrastructure of the internet. Yep. But it's still not the same as being in person. No. No real substitute for that. So I love that you've had that. How has that really helped you? Like, is it just knowing you weren't alone? Are there specific things that people have done that has been helpful? And are there people outside those, you've mentioned these support communities, which means you're all going through the same thing, but what about your neighbors, your friends, your family, how have they helped? Or made it harder. What could they have done differently? Like, what would you tell people about how to support people through any of these major trials that you see?

Becca: 27:41

Absolutely. That's one thing that I have several blog posts about as far as like the things we've been through, like things to say or not to say or things that really help. It seems cliche because it happens all the time, at least here in Utah or in a church community, but. Giving food or gift cards or money for food is so helpful because everyone, I guess, not everyone, but most people will understand the daily grind of having to come up with a meal to feed a family every single day. And when that is stacked on top of something big, then it can be the straw that broke the camel's back sometimes, you know, so. Just asking, can I bring you a meal on such and such and reaching out, honestly, I, I am guilty of it. I try not to do it anymore, but saying, let me know if I can do anything. It helps to a certain degree, a tiny degree to know that you're not alone, but it means so much more when you don't make them have to use their mental capacity to come up with how to help. So just think of how you just brainstorm. And then ask them if something could help and they can say no, if it wouldn't help, but for example, like I had a friend who they were moving, their kids were older, and they wanted to get rid of their swing set, their play set. And so she reached out and she was like, Would you like to have this? Would you be interested? And it was during the pandemic when, like, We didn't even dare go to the park half the time, you know, with Lincoln. And so it was so helpful and so kind. So there's that, or just bringing paper plates. I mean, I love trying to be nice to the environment, but sometimes you're in survival mode and having one less thing to do, like dishes. is awesome. I always try and give people paper plates when they're thinking through, like when they're initially diagnosed or something like that.

Kristin: 29:48

what a great service to just show up at their house and like, you don't even have to talk to them and just leave. Paper plates on the porch like with a little card. Hey, come in handy so that you'd have less dishes to do. Love you.

Becca: 30:01

I am lucky that I live relatively close to a lot of family. So without if that hadn't been the case Cancer would have been a million times harder, but my mom is a saint, and she came and basically lived with us for part of the week, the whole first eight months of Lincoln's treatment. His treatment was over two years long, but the first eight months was the most intense. They call it frontline treatment. And, and I have a sister that lives close by too. And so being able to, if you are able to, physically come and babysitting is a huge thing. Because if it's someone who has more than one child, then You're always needing childcare or if or to go out on a date night, if you feel comfortable watching someone's kids, so they can, the couple can have a date night, that is huge offering to clean house or do laundry for someone. Those are massive helps. So those are a few ideas that I have.

Kristin: 31:05

I love that. And you mentioned in some of your blog posts, things that you would tell people not to say, what would you put on the not to say or do list?

Becca: 31:14

One of your your last guest said this about infertility, but it is so unhelpful to have people ask, when are you having kids? You never know when someone is trying to have a kid. And it's just like a mini stab to the heart. Every time it's just, it can be awkward so just, I wish that society didn't ask that I know that it comes from a good place. Someone's not going, they're just trying to get to know you they're trying to connect with you, but you don't know what's going on behind the scenes, and Like Josh, Josh, my husband and I would like come up by the end, he's always joking and whatnot. And so he, he would be like, kids, ew, we're never having those. Like we'd make a joke out of it to kind of deflect, but it's just, it's not helpful. There are plenty of other topics. Like when I was going through infertility, I would be like, it seems like every conversation when it's with a group of women, it's all about kids. It seems, at least in this culture, this area that we live in, it seems like every conversation was about kids. I was like, there are other things in life to talk about. We can talk about movies, we can talk about books, we can talk about vacations. Like, just be cognizant of trying to cover a wide variety of topics so that someone doesn't feel left out. So that's infertility in the childhood cancer world. And actually, this is infertility, too. There tend to be a lot of people who, from a loving place, want to offer advice. Have you tried this? Have you tried that? And I can tell you that if you're a mom who has a child going through a medical trial or whatever, They have most likely researched everything that you are trying to offer them. And so while you're trying to be helpful, it usually isn't, it's, it's like, okay, you don't know every single thing about my child the way that I do. And so for this reason or that reason, that's great advice for someone else, but not me, you know, so just trying to be there for people and hold space for them and listen to them As opposed to offer advice is a general piece of advice. I give ironically.

Kristin: 33:34

And I think that there could be value because there could be a mom who's really been through it and maybe they have something that you, you know, haven't tried. Yeah. But there could be an approach to say, You know, I've experienced this and I've learned some things. If you're open and would like to hear advice, let me know. Kind of like asked permission. Then that other mom, maybe they actually do want it, but they get to be the gatekeeper of who they're receiving that advice from and make sure that they are in the mental state to receive it at that time at all, right. Sometimes your brain might be so fried that the person might literally have the magic cure. It's true. but you can't even make space for that at that moment. If it's so important that you're like, no, I really need to share it. Be like, hey. You know, I have some ideas. Maybe you've tried them. Maybe you haven't. Let me know if you're open to that.

Becca: 34:30

Yeah, absolutely. I like that permission piece. And honor whatever they choose. Yes.

Kristin: 34:36

Because they might say, I'm not open looking for more advice at this time. And then you have to accept that and move on, like, on with your agency, but, you know, because I can see that and it does come from a good place. It totally does. It cares and they want to help, but you have to be able to look at the other person's perspective. Yeah. Is it actually helpful? Right. And not holding space to just listen. The more I do this podcast, the more I realize people, number one, they want to be seen and just have someone witness what they're experiencing. So true. without trying to be changed or judged or told what to do. They just want to be witnessed. Absolutely. And when we do that for people, We often just give them the space with the strength to figure it out for themselves.

Becca: 35:30

Yep. It's true all the time. You'll be talking about it. And just, I think this is like how stereotypically men and women communicate differently, you know, like you'll be talking and talking and think you have a problem. And by the end, you're like, I just needed to talk it out. It's fine. It's not as big of a deal as opposed to sometimes telling your husband or whatever, and they try to fix it immediately. Like, no, no, just. Just let me vent. And one other thing I wanted to add is this can make it tricky, and I don't really have a solution for it, but everyone is different and will prefer different things. I know when I got pregnant, I was so excited, but I suffer from a lot of survivor's guilt from a lot of different things. And I felt so bad about my friends who were still trying to conceive and didn't have the good news and I was like, Oh, I have to tell them but I was so anxious about it, you know, and then later on down the road after having kids I still have friends who are still living that infertility journey, and I try to be supportive, but I have had times where I've said the wrong thing, or said the exact more correctly said the same exact thing, pretty much to two or three different friends and they took it differently. Like one was so grateful that I'd said it and one was really pissed off. I took over a softball tournament fundraiser. I'm running it. It'll go in September, but I was talking to my friend who set it up yesterday and I was, we recently, unfortunately had a mutual friend lose their son to cancer, which happens a lot in this world when you have community and so holding space to grieve and mourn with that person, but anyway, I asked my friend I was like, what would have helped when you lost your son and she was like, it's different for different people because her husband has this wonderful heartfelt story about an apostle who talked to them and it made him feel so much better. But it didn't get to her. She was like, No, I didn't want to hear that message right then. And so, you know, even from an apostle, people can take things differently. And so just do the best you can. And I like, even just the question that you start your podcast out with, how are you? Really, add that really because I know I have been super guilty of just being like, Oh, things are pretty good, you know, just surface level answers. But when you look someone in the eye, or like are just very sincere about tell me how you really are, I really want to hear and let you get off anything, anything off your chest that you want to, then that's an invitation for them to heal a little bit.

Kristin: 38:18

Oh, I love that. And I think that's so important to recognize that as a friend we might do everything that we can and try and say and do the right things and we might get it wrong. Mm-Hmm. because we don't know exactly where that person's coming from. But I think in general, the energy that we come at it with can overcome so much. Like, so true. If you know that someone genuinely, there's someone in my life. That has such a good heart, that is very tactless, and has said offensive things over the years. But I know this person's heart so much that I am able to look past some of the words that get in the way to the service and the caring that comes from the heart because some people really just, I don't know, they just bumble it a lot. Bless his heart.

Becca: 39:14

Yes. What a wonderful thing. I

Kristin: 39:17

see the goodness that's there. Mm hmm. Yeah. There are other people who you can feel it, right? You feel it in your body. They're coming at you because it's really about gossip. They're not really there up for you. So they might even say all the right words. They might be crafted well, but you, you kind of get this sense of, are you really here? Like, because you care about me or are you trying to make yourself feel better or make yourself feel important, you know? And so even if they say the right words, so I think that for people who are afraid to speak up, who are afraid to say something, who are afraid to reach out to the mom whose child just died of cancer, because what if you get it wrong? Yeah. You get your heart and your energy right first. It

Becca: 40:06

will be okay.

Kristin: 40:07

Thank you for saying that the wrong thing. It would be absolutely most important part is getting yourself. Like, why are you there? Are you there because you care and you love them? You know what? Do your best and it's going to be okay. And they're going to feel the energy that's behind. Yes. Even if you bumble. They are absolutely all that energy. Cause you feel the difference. You felt it in all of your trials, the people who come to you, who, you know, are invested in you and care about you. And when they get it wrong, you're like, okay, you know, but you see it versus the people who just leave, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Becca: 40:43

Yeah. And I'm, thank you so much for articulating it that way. I, I know in one of your other episodes I think it was one of the earlier ones. I can't remember, but one of your guests. articulated very well the fact that silence is worse than say, the wrong thing from a good place. You know what I mean? So like you said, what are things to avoid? We did unfortunately have people we were very close to that it felt like they weren't really in our corner. And a big part of that was just not ever asking. I know that it can be awkward, you can not know what to say, you can be worried, especially because of what I've said already, you could be worried, but It's going to be taken the wrong way or whatever, but if like you said, you get in a place where you're coming from a loving place and you just reach out in some way, then it's helpful. It's helpful. And they know that they're not alone.

Kristin: 41:37

I think that's so true and I'm getting better at it over the years. And it's hard. And sometimes I know I've just shown up so awkwardly laughing my family. Well, I, I laugh. My kids are like, Oh, mom, but it's part of my brand. Yep. Yep. I'm just willing to go forward and talk to someone, but I, I haven't always been there.

Becca: 42:00

Yeah. Same.

Kristin: 42:02

And sometimes I have to really like work myself up for it. But sometimes the times when I've done that have actually been some of the sweetest experiences. Yeah. Yeah. I really felt inspired to help someone in a certain way and to do something and I know I showed up awkwardly, but it was still the right thing. Absolutely. I haven't regretted that. You know, I went back and been like, no, it just was awkward. I just celebrate the awkward at this point. That's one of the beauties of getting to this stage of life. I'm like, I'm not in middle school anymore. I don't care. I'll just own the awkward.

Becca: 42:36

Yes, absolutely. I just recently listened to Julia Louis Dreyfus. She has a podcast where she interviews older women with their wisdom. And I can't remember which guest it was, some famous older woman said, it might've been Jane Fonda. Anyway, they were basically like, people talk about getting old is hard. I would much rather be old than be young. Being young is so hard with all of the self doubts, especially. Women, I think it's, yeah, it's, it's easier getting older and being willing to, especially if you're, you are traditionally or. Historically, a perfectionist easier to get older and realize that you can do things messy and it's okay.

Kristin: 43:22

It is. And it's better than being paralyzed by doing it right. Yep. You do so much less when you have anxiety for getting it just perfectly right. Yep. There's so much that you miss out on. Yep. Is really coloring everything that you do. And even if you do the thing. It's not even as enjoyable. You give up a lot of joy in life to be that level of perfectionism. So true. Decades to, you know, get past.

Becca: 43:55

Always, always a work in progress. I actually don't remember why I thought of it earlier, but you just reminded me of it again. You were talking about when you're living in that perfectionistic.anxious state, you do so much less. And my patriarchal blessing actually, it says that I will succeed at what I set my hand to, not my mind to like the phrase usually says, but my hand to, and that's very individual, but I think it's true for other people too, because I have thought of doing a lot of good things, but you have to put that action behind it in order to actually follow through and make an impact.

Kristin: 44:33

Oh, I love that. I think there's so much value there. And for our audience that isn't LDS or doesn't have that background to know what a patriarchal blessing is, it's something that someone in our church can receive and it's a special blessing that kind of just gives you a message from God about things within your life, things you might expect or anticipate. It's kind of like a personal scripture. So, yeah. All very individualized and, and it's an option that people have that they can get from the time they're a youth or into adulthood at any time. So, yeah, so that's kind of, I love that though. That's something that you put your hand to. There's so many ideas I have that I could never do them all. Yeah, I am full of ideas.

Becca: 45:20

Yep, me too.

Kristin: 45:21

Putting your hand to it, that takes another step and brings it into creation. So one question that I usually ask in the beginning, but we dived right in, which I love, but I don't want to miss asking you this of all people. But I like to ask what you're listening to, you know, the podcast, the audiobooks, the music, like what's in your ear. And because I know you're such a passionate listener. audio book and podcast listener. You know, we missed this question.

Becca: 45:48

Okay. I love that question. I always think about Including that question in my podcast and I get carried away and forget. So I love that you ask it. So I wrote down, so I wouldn't forget because I'm always in the middle of like several books. So first of all, I just finished. Is it here? Yeah. Oh, I pulled it aside already. It Gave Me You it's by a local author. My friend who had a daughter who was diagnosed with childhood cancer and it's a memoir of her daughter's love story of how she met her husband and got married. But anyway, so I finished that. I finished The Creative Act by Rick Rubin. And currently I'm listening to The Artist's Way, but I actually this one I'm physically reading. This one I'm physically reading, which doesn't happen often, but The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. I love it. And I just started listening to Same Kind of Different As Me, which is a memoir of one black guy, one white guy. And I think later there's a, a lady introduced who all lived during the fifties and sixties in the South. And that's really good.

Kristin: 47:00

Interesting. So do you listen to so far? I'm hearing a lot of like memoir kind of feel, is that like a favorite genre for you?

Becca: 47:08

It's definitely a favorite. My goal is to someday be a published author and I'm working on my first memoir right now. So memoirs are definitely a big thing. Self help books, but I also love fiction too the classics and historical fiction. Yeah, those are my go tos.

Kristin: 47:25

I love that. I used to read almost entirely self help and some memoirs, biographies, that kind of thing. But then over the last couple of years, I've really gotten into action adventure books that are more PG ish. And I think I, read almost everything I can find. I'm like running out of options. Yeah. that are PGish. Yeah. Because I'm okay with people, you know, it's war, there's action, people are going to die. I don't want graphic details around the death. I'm okay with romance. I don't want to be in the bedroom with the characters. Yeah. Because I kind of have these little parameters. So a lot of times I'm searching Christian fiction. Yeah. As it's not, it's okay with me if it doesn't have Christian elements. That's just a very weed out because I'm listening to a little more than a book a day on average. I don't really want to spend a long time reading reviews. I just want to get into the next book. That makes sense. That makes sense. We're getting to the end of the line. I'm getting to this point where I'm like, I don't even know what's going to come next. Maybe I'll have to actually go back to some more memoir or self help type book. Maybe. Had the artist way for Quite a while and have not been able to get myself to read it yet.

Becca: 48:39

I, I was, it was on my to be read list for a long time before I picked it up, but I definitely encourage you to,

Kristin: 48:47

I'll, I'll have to get in there. I even started this year writing every morning'cause I know the art job. Yeah. Some of that. But that did not last, so I, I not, I know I hear you since then, but I hear, but I, one line a day, I'm like, I think I could do a one line a day. Yeah. It's much more

Becca: 49:03

maintainable.

Kristin: 49:04

Yes, that is a, that is a consistency level because The Artist's Way, it's like three pages

Becca: 49:10

a day. And I do, I do the, they call them morning pages and I am not, I don't do what she says and do them every day. And I'm giving myself grace for that. And I also don't force myself to write till three pages and I'm giving myself grace to that, but I'm writing more than I would without going through it. I probably write like three or four times a week. And like two pages on average, but it's still more than I would write if I weren't going through it.

Kristin: 49:38

That's what I'm learning about goals. So maybe you're doing 65 percent of what's suggested, which is 65 percent more than you would be doing if you were like, I can't do it right. So I'll do nothing. Yep, exactly. Like 65 percent is pretty good. That's a lot. So we're going to go with that. I love that attitude gets us pretty far. So I agree. So tell me if you had a billboard that everyone in the world would see, what message do you think the world needs?

Becca: 50:07

Okay, I thought about this question'cause I knew it was coming and I am not the most concise person. we'll see how I can do, but in my mind I'm seeing like two lines and the top one. I'm a former English teacher, and I am a slight grammar snob, so punctuation matters. The top line would say, Every. Period. Single. Period. Person. Period. Matters. Period. So, because if you don't have the periods in between every single word, people wouldn't take the time to actually focus on it, I think. So every single person matters. That is something I totally believe in. And then the second part would be kind of like the line in The Help, where she's saying, you is kind, you is important, all of that. But I, like I said, grammar snob, so it would have to be grammatically correct. Something like: You matter. You are important. You are powerful. You can do hard things. You are not alone. So my two biggest is everyone, every single person matters and you are not alone.

Kristin: 51:22

I love that. It's an affirmation billboard. It is. It is. Yeah. That would be a good thing to just put up in your house. You can make some like cute Etsy thing, you know, It could be like, here is the message that we need to be reminded of every day.

Becca: 51:37

That's right. Maybe I'll start a craft doing that and then we'll see if I finish it or if it just becomes, you know, that pile of fun. Yeah,

Kristin: 51:48

I do. I do know that pile. I have that pile because I'm not that great at decluttering. I actually still have the pile, but hopefully someday I will at least get the pile off of my property. That's

Becca: 52:01

right. Like we've, we've talked about baby steps, one thing at a time.

Kristin: 52:05

That's so true. And is there anything else that you'd want to leave our listeners with? I know you mentioned you'd have your first reading retreat. Do you have anything scheduled upcoming? We have your podcast we'll link to, but anything else where listeners can find you and you know, the things that you're offering right now?

Becca: 52:22

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for asking. So my Instagram is probably the easiest way to see what I'm up to that and my podcast. So Instagram, it's blingers all B L. And then my last name, I N G E R S O L L. My blog, like I mentioned before is called Mercy Rose. It's just that mercy hyphen rose. com and my podcast Finding Joy Through Life's Trials. I am planning a reading retreat, but I haven't yet decided on a date. I'm surprised a lot of people wanted one in the summer, so I'm thinking it might be June or July. If I can get enough people interested, and it will probably be in the Salt Lake area. Summer is easier for me. Is it? Okay.

Kristin: 53:09

So many activities for our kids. Yes. The amount of like trying to get people to drive. You know, forty-five minutes each way to get to this chorus practice, you know, all those kinds of things, get to the dance room. And I have so many kids at home, right? In the summer, we simplify, we have less things. So if I'm gone, there's less to cover.

Becca: 53:32

Yeah, that totally makes sense.'cause

Kristin: 53:35

most, I have so many older ones that they can kind of help. You know, they luckily, yeah, older one's a little and the youngest one's five, almost six. It's Uhhuh, it's, you know, I don't have toddlers anymore. Mm-Hmm. I'm outta that stage. Something I never thought would happen. Right.

Becca: 53:52

That's so great. Goes by fast. It does. Time is weird. It is weird. The weeks sometimes seem long or the days, but then you blink and the year's over.

Kristin: 54:03

Oh, it's so true. But yeah, that sounds really awesome. I think, and I think a reading retreat. So are these retreats, is everyone just reading and having snacks?

Becca: 54:11

That was my initial plan. So in one of my recent podcast episodes, I kind of go over what we did on my reading retreat. And my original plan was a two night, three day event. And it was a mix of plenty of silent reading time, lots of snacks. And also some activities like we did reading bingo where it was just bingo and all of the prizes were reading rest and relaxation related. I call them Becca's RR and R retreat. And, but I, because of people's this one that I recently did, people couldn't go away for as long, like you said, their life was busy. And so we ended up just doing a night and then the following morning at a hotel. And so we didn't get as much silent reading time, but we did get some. So we, we did bingo. We talked about book recommendations and favorite books and things like that. And just. general overall life and girl talk that was really fun, but then everyone did also have time to read as well.

Kristin: 55:17

Awesome. I just like for people to know, like, this would appeal to you if you are a book lover.

Becca: 55:22

Yes, absolutely.

Kristin: 55:24

You're into community and you were into books, this is ideal for you.

Becca: 55:28

And I started it, I can't remember which, Podcast I was on recently, but I started it because I mean, you think, well, I can read anywhere and that's true for some people, but how many moms especially give themselves time to read. You know, or when you might have time after the kids are in bed, but then you're too tired and fall asleep. I wanted to give people and it can be, you don't have to be a mom at all, but that's just who I think a lot of the time has a more difficult time giving themselves time to just take, just enjoy something for themselves away from responsibilities.

Kristin: 56:09

Oh, it's so true. Because then you get to the end of the day and you're like, oh, are the dishes done? Is it cleaned up? Is the laundry put, you know, what do we have activities tomorrow? Have we coordinated that? What time do I, and then by the time you get all that done, you're just like passing out.

Becca: 56:23

Exactly, exactly. But if you're in a different location where you don't have to worry about taking care of kids or cleaning up or making food or whatever, then it's easier.

Kristin: 56:34

I love that. I think that's a beautiful concept. I would love a reading retreat. I might actually read instead of just doing, I've almost given up on reading. Like I do little paper book reading a little here and there. But compared to what I once did, I used to read a ton and now I've switched almost entirely to audiobooks.

Becca: 56:54

Which I'm so grateful that that's an option now and it's so accessible, audiobooks, but I'm the same. Physically reading a book, it doesn't happen nearly as often for me these days. And that's fine too. If you love audio books, then that's still reading in my mind. And so come to the reading retreat and listen to the book while you're doodling or whatever.

Kristin: 57:14

Perfect. And don't have anything else that's taking your attention away. Exactly. Actually focus on that. It works for both ways. So awesome. And thank you so much for being a guest today. I have loved connecting with you and I think we've given our listeners some tangible steps, which I always love about things that you can do if you're feeling mired in darkness and things that you can do if you see your friends who are, to show up a little bit better, a little more frequently and with a little bit better energy and with know how and confidence that you really can reach out and you're reaching out makes a difference and it does help build community and how valuable that is to us. So

Becca: 57:55

thank you so much. Thank you. I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I knew I would because you know, I've listened to your podcast and I know we're kindred spirits, but thank you so much for having me.

58:08

Outro Music

Kristin: 58:12

Didn't you just love listening to Becca? I think that she has so much to offer and I love her realness, just the way that she shows up as she is and is accepting of all of the things that we go through in life, the deep struggles and the difficulties that she has faced in her own life, but also Not letting that overshadow the moments of joy, which is really so important. We can develop a practice of gratitude. We can develop a process of training our brains to still see the good in every phase of our lives. The reality is crap happens, like bad stuff happens. We face trials. But we do have more power than I think we often realize about how we're going to respond to those trials. So while I am not an advocate for spiritual bypassing or toxic positivity, I am absolutely an advocate for holding on to those gratitude practices, those self care and happiness practices that keep us grounded so that when we face difficult times, they don't just overshadow our whole lives and we miss out on the good stuff that is still always there and the peace that can still be found. So I hope there was something inspiring for you in here and You know, go ahead and look Becca up. There'll be information in the show notes. If you want to follow along on her blog or listen to more of her podcast episodes, or if you're interested in joining any future retreats that she's running, especially if you live in Utah or if you're willing to travel to Utah, because I think that's where most of them will be. That way you can follow along and be able to have that information. Thank you so much for being part of the Solidarity Sister community. We needed you.