Understanding Your Divine Path Forward with Naomi Fox Reina | Ep 56

This episode was gold for me. Interviewing Naomi Fox Reina helped me to further ground myself in the idea that God created me just as I am, and that by embracing my unique gifts, that I can live a purpose-driven life. 

You'll love Naomi's outlook on life, as she accepts hardships as experiences to teach and refine us, pouring hope into others, regardless of where they are on their own personal journey. Naomi has been through the ringer, and come out on the other side to a beautiful, joy-filled life, and she'll inspire you with hope that you can do the same.

Bonus, you'll get to hear a little bit about my own birth chart, and the big players in my sun and moon that explain so much about how I have experienced life.  

Find and Connect with Naomi:

illuxology.com
facebook.com/groups/illuxology
instagram.com/illuxology
youtube.com/@illuxology
tiktok.com/@illuxology
facebook.com/illuxology
linkedin.com/company/illuxology

About Naomi:

Naomi Fox Reina is the first Light-Filled Astrologer + Human Design Teacher. She has a Divine Affinity for Astrology and certifies Light-Filled Astrologers to bring more light, alignment, and freedom to the world. When she's not geeking out about Astrology and HD charts, you'll find her spending time with her family or hiking around the red rocks of St George. She has 3 children, 3 step children, and is blissfully married to her best friend, Ralph.

*************************************

If you're a woman who appreciates connecting with other women in community with vulnerability and compassion, please join us in the Solidarity Sister! Facebook group at:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/716800349946338/

The Solidarity Sister! Book Club has begun and runs through the end of May. We're reading Brené Brown's Gifts of Imperfection over a period of 15 weeks, and connecting via Zoom and Marco Polo. Find more info in the FB group. Sign up at https://forms.gle/ZHpfhd8hwCpw6NL2A

FB: The Solidarity Sister Podcast
IG: @solidaritysister.kristinwilson 

Transcript

Naomi: 0:00

We're not, we're never trying to get back to the person we were before, which is such an easy temptation when we've been through something hard, is we just want to get back because that feels like the safest, but we're being led on a really cool journey and adventure. And when people tell you you're on an adventure when you're going through something hard, like all the cuss words want to come out, and it's like, screw you, I just want to go back to what I was doing before. But on the other side of it, it's, it's just going to be magnificent because we are actually hard wired for progress and growth and most of us kind of hate that because our fear based part of our brain hates change and progress and growth only are born out of change and so when we can celebrate that change is always for our best good, then we can kind of surrender a little bit more and it does help the process to go a little bit smoother.

Kristin: 0:52

Hello and welcome to another episode of Solidarity Sister with Kristin Wilson, where we continue on in our quest to cultivate our community building skills and lean into meaningful friendships. Self care and self love are at the heart of community building, so we are also exploring how to care for ourselves so we can better connect in relationships. We weren't meant to do life alone. And I'm so glad you're here to do life with me. Well, today's episode is such a treat, my friends. I had the privilege of interviewing Naomi Fox Reina, who is the first light filled astrologer and human design teacher. So what does that mean? That sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo, I think, if you're outside of that realm. Astrology, to make it clear, as we're talking about it in this context, is not the horoscope that you read in the daily newspaper or somewhere online, since most of us really don't look at print newspapers anymore. When we talk about light filled astrology, we are talking about using patterns that God has set in the planets and in the stars to help us to make sense of ourselves. And I really really had nothing to do with astrology for a lot of years, but a few years ago, I did this deep dive into the three wise men, which we know there may not have been three, but kind of going that route and seeing the places where there was astrology used for good within the scriptures opened me up to a possibility that there could be something to this that could also be something that was of God. And I love Naomi's take on Light filled astrology and human design. This is not predictive astrology. This is using birth charts and human design elements to be able to have a better understanding of what your God given gifts are and what your purpose is. So when listening to this episode, one, you're going to be inspired by Naomi because you'll see you the light filled being that she is now, and you'll hear her story through abusive marriages, through a lot of difficulty and struggle, through learning to receive from those who would serve and love her and help her to get to the place where she is now, where she's living a really joy filled life and inspiring and helping others to do the same. So there's so much inspiration in her story. We'll also have a little few minutes there where Naomi's gonna look at my own chart and I really felt both seen but seen in like a oh my gosh I'm naked here kind of a way like really some insights in to my own self and what it's like to be me and kind of hear that perspective using astrology, which was very interesting to me and also was extremely dead on for what my life experience has been. So even if astrology is not your cup of tea, human design is not your cup of tea. That is totally okay. I think it'll be interesting for you. to understand a different perspective, a different way of looking at things and open you up to the possibilities that you were divinely created to be the only one of you in the world and that you have divine purposes that you can fulfill in a way that no one else can and that a big part of us being on this planet is for us to be able to reach for those divine purposes and to become the highest versions of ourselves that we can. And we can do that so much better in community when we're surrounded by people who love us and care about us and want to see us succeed in the best ways possible, which may or may not look like financial success or fame or any of those kinds of markers. It may just be that quiet assurance that we are living in alignment as the person that God created us to be. I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I enjoyed both participating in it and listening to it again through edits.

5:32

Outro Music

Kristin: 5:37

Hello and welcome to another episode of Solidarity Sister with Kristin Wilson and I am so excited to have my friend Naomi here because we are really only Facebook friends to date and now we get to have a face to face and we get to talk and she has this beautiful Facebook group. She is a master in astrology and in human design and things I'm just kind of delving into and we were actually starting with this really great conversation before we were even recording because it's just. It's so good to be able to connect. Honestly, this is one of my favorite parts of podcasting. It's really the interviews and getting to just sit down with people and feel of their goodness. So Naomi, tell me, how are you doing today for real?

Naomi: 6:17

Oh, thank you so much. And again, like, I just want to start out by saying thank you for having me on. Like, I'm so thrilled to be here. So how am I doing today for real? So overall really good. But we're also, like, on the tail end of the energy of an eclipse that just happened a week to date before recording this that had Chiron in the middle of it, which Chiron is the soul wound, and it's also the soul healing. And so I have been sifting through some really, really deep core wound childhood stuff for, like, the last week and a half that has, like, really been a doozy. I've, I'm no stranger to healing work. I've been doing it for a very long time and I, and I love it and I know it's a journey, but oh, I have been confronting stuff that like I haven't hit something this big in probably at least two years, which is very exciting because that means i'm about to overcome something like huge that I didn't even know it was there, but whew I have been in it and i'm so excited because I feel like i'm kind of on the other end but like I just love how there's those perpetual reminders that no matter how much you know, and no matter how many healing tools that you have, that there is still always stuff, and it's more of just the gratitude of like, I'm so grateful that I have so many healing tools, but it doesn't prevent us from getting in it.

Kristin: 7:34

I love the way that you phrase that because I found, you know, a few years ago when I really was full of trials and my attitude was not that great. It wasn't grateful for like, look what I'm overcoming. I honestly took it to this space of feeling like shame and failure that because I had so many healing tools, I shouldn't be feeling so devastated. Like, I should be able to avoid that, which is really actually not how humans were meant to be, but that was my mindset was very much like making it harder on myself because not only was I going through things like, you know, my husband being on the verge of dying from COVID and in the ICU and stuff like that, but I was like, why am I not handling this better? Like, what's wrong with me? Because now I'm this many years into life and I have so many more healing tools than when I'd gone through trials in the past that I just expected myself to be able to like barrel through with flying colors and not even be devastated. And I love the way you're like, so I'm excited because I'm coming to this deeper level and now I get to heal that. It wasn't like, what's wrong with me? I have to heal something again. It was like, what's right with me that I got to go to a deeper level of healing. And I think that's such a beautiful mindset and way healthier than the one I was possessing at that time. It would have served me well to be.

Naomi: 8:56

I used to be in that same space for so long. Like there, there was the, you know, original core problem. And then there's the shame over. some arbitrary judgment that I had of myself of how I should or shouldn't be handling it. And the way that I came to phrase it is, it's like I took the shame stick, and not only would I beat myself with it, sometimes I would wrap it up with spikes and then just go to town. Like, I would be so hard on myself, and I, I went through so many difficult challenges in my life that absolutely left me no other choice except for, like, lose my ever living mind or figure out how to align myself with what was actually true. And I'm a huge fan of Byron Katie. I'm a huge fan of self compassion. I'm a huge fan of just self confrontation and just being like, is that actually true? Like, is it actually true that I should be handling this better? And I think one of the nuggets I've gotten out of so much is that most of us don't factor in grief. We don't make time for grief. I mean, unless you're dressed all in black and have just come home from a funeral. Like, we don't think that grief is a part of our life when grief is literally a daily thing. Especially in kind of the, quote, early years of our healing journey, which I would say is like the first two decades that we're like daily grieving something. And so I just find that now I'm at a season of my life where I just, I call it stop, drop, and process, where like, if something comes up, it's, it's very rare that I have a situation in my life that I can't just clear everything and just process because I've just seen that it's such a high priority that if I'm trying to shove down emotions or not process things in the, kind of in real time you know, you can set it aside for like an hour or so, but like, don't shove it down and pretend like it doesn't exist because that's only going to become a cancer inside of you, sometimes literally a cancer, but also can become a a rage monster that, that turns into something that it never was intended to be. And so, allowing emotions to be more of informants, to say, hey, by the way, we're having a problem down here, can we go there? And you go and discover it, and you grieve. And grief is, is a skill that most of us haven't learned in school. That we even should develop like we're not even aware of like that's the path you have to grieve and then when you grieve That's when your joy can expand but it can't until you grieve.

Kristin: 11:19

I think that's so true I like to think of it as some of my life experiences like we all have a bucket and every time really hard devastating things happen and we experience some level of suffering, of grief, of whatever, our buckets expand. And if we process what's in the bucket, that bucket is also represents our capacity for joy.

Naomi: 11:44

Yes.

Kristin: 11:46

So if we don't empty the bucket, then we still just have this large bucket of grief. But the reality is, and I wish it worked differently, Because I wish there was a way to expand. I absolutely do. If I could and I could just have a big bucket of joy. Yes, I totally would. But, but it doesn't work that way. I'm sure it does not. But sometimes I meet people and they have a very small grief bucket and it's a very small joy bucket too, but it's also they have a harder time reaching. having a depth of empathy and compassion. And I, I was that person at one point. Like, I can't even understand why you're feeling that because like, is it really that big of a deal? No, it actually was that big of a deal. And I just didn't have the life experience yet that had allowed me to have that level of compassion and empathy because all those things are interrelated, but. I also am convinced that it isn't automatic, like the bucket doesn't automatically transfer to being a bucket for joy and compassion and empathy. It's what you do to heal what's in the bucket. And I at one point had a very large bucket that was filled with negative things that I hadn't processed. And the first time I went to therapy, I legit said, I am here because I hate the way I feel and I want to learn how to not feel negative emotions anymore. Like, period. Like, I don't want to feel them. And she was like, that's not exactly how this works. So we need to process them. And I was like, Well, but I'm paying you and that's not what I'm paying you for. I am paying you so that I don't actually have to experience those. I am not interested in that. And she was like, well, you know, we kind of had this little back and forth where she was basically telling me you're wrong and that's not going to work and I was telling her, but that's what I want and that's the only thing I'm willing to accept. And yes, over time we came to an understanding that. I was wrong. So I had to go a different direction. But yes, it's true. And so I love that you are experiencing those things and you are experiencing them in real time, because the reality is, is when you do that. They don't act as a barricade to the future things you're trying to do. And they're not coloring every life experience.

Naomi: 14:02

I can see retroactively now how I'm like, wow, this has really been keeping me stuck. Like this is young childhood stuff. But because I, I do process so much in real time, when something new kind of reveals itself, I'm not dealing with the other 85, 000 pieces of garbage that are up right now. And like in my face, I'm dealing with. That like if you had a garden that was that you got to the point that it was well weeded you get like one weed popping up and it's just so much more obvious and you can focus on that you can deal with it. And so. Yeah, it's been like, at the time that I scheduled this, I didn't know I was going to be going through this, but I, I really believe in the law of polarity, that in, in the seed of everything that is incredibly difficult and hard, is equal and greater proportion of something good. Amazing. And so I have gotten into the habit in my life that when things are very, very, very hard, like the legitimate, like your face is slamming against the cement, you're just struggling, like you can't see straight, like everything feels like a threat, whatever is going on, that I now have like a default that I've kind of trained myself to get excited. And it doesn't always happen immediately, but it definitely kicks in that I get excited because I'm like, if this is this hard. Whatever is on the other side of this, as I navigate this, messily or well, but like, as I navigate it, because I know I will this is going to be amazing. Because we never go through something incredibly hard and actually get to the other side of it just to be kind of, back to where we were. We're not, we're never trying to get back to the person we were before, which is such an easy temptation when we've been through something hard, is we just want to get back because that feels like the safest, but we're being led on a really cool journey and adventure. And when people tell you you're on an adventure when you're going through something hard, like all the cuss words want to come out, and it's like, screw you, I just want to go back to what I was doing before. And so, but on the other side of it, it's, it's just going to be magnificent because we are actually hard wired for progress and growth and most of us kind of hate that because our fear based part of our brain hates change and progress and growth only are born out of change and so when we can celebrate that change is always for our best good, then we can kind of surrender a little bit more and it does help the process to go a little bit smoother.

Kristin: 16:20

I think that's beautiful. So tell me a little bit about what led you here because I know some about your background. You've been through some really difficult things. Now you're in this space where you're just kind of like healing as you go. But I think if we were to, you know, to rewind back into your life, It maybe wasn't always that way. And for someone who's sitting and listening and going, oh, like that's nice for her, but like, I could never, because I, I have so many weeds in my garden that I don't even know where to start. And like, for her to see that one come up and she can go after her one, but like, how did you get from there to here? And you know, what was that journey like? And anywhere that community played a role, of course, we always like to highlight that as well.

Naomi: 17:02

Absolutely, yes. So, imagine, I'm, we're going to go back to like I'm 21. I'm totally naive. I am about to get married for the first time and I found this man and we dated for a year and a half and everything was great except it wasn't, but I wasn't paying attention to that. And I was really, really, really committed to painting my life with this specific paintbrush of perfection and whitewashing and just kind of all of that. And I thought that I knew how the world worked. I thought that I was really confident in my perspective on things. And I get married, and about a week into that marriage, he just starts screaming at me, like, screaming at the top of his lungs and I had never been abused in any way before this. Like, nobody had raised their voice to me, like, other than, like, trying to shout to, like, get your attention from across the house or whatever. Like, I'd never been hit, I'd never had anything like that, and I never saw my parents fight. And so I, I was very naive, I had absolutely zero conflict resolution skills. I was So traumatized. So unbelievably traumatized. And so, about five years into that marriage I started going to therapy. And, you know, your original complaint, like, what are you here for therapy about? Like, you just talked about. I, I so distinctly remember that I put on there, like, I need to know how to not fall apart when my husband and I fight. That was what I thought I was going to therapy for. And at this point we had a child. He was about 18 months when I started going to therapy. We'd had a miscarriage, like a really early miscarriage before that. And we just, the whole marriage was lots of, like, explosive sort of experiences. He was finally diagnosed with PTSD and all of a sudden my world made a lot of sense. So I googled the heck out of that, learned everything I could. So I went to this therapist who I'd heard speak about PTSD because I was a birth professional and she was speaking about it in context of having gone through birth experiences and coming out with PTSD. So I went to her, actually, I first called her and I said, my husband needs your help. My husband has PTSD. My husband has this problem. Like, I'm calling to help my husband. Bless her heart. I can now see through her eyes at this stage of my life, looking back where she's like, well, I have you on the phone. So why don't you come in? Because sometimes people who are married to people with PTSD also get PTSD from the marriage. And I just started bawling. And so I started to see her. And what I learned was we weren't fighting, I was in an abusive marriage, and something would trigger him that was very unpredictable, and he would lose his mind, and he was suffering a lot, and we had a very codependent dynamic, where I would bounce back and forth between victim and hero, and he would bounce back and forth between perpetrator and victim, and so we had this perfect little dance that worked. Until I was like, I think I'm out of this dance. So I started to withdraw myself from that little messed up triangle. And then it was like I watched him just run around the triangle like he was sprinting laps. And it was so fascinating because he didn't have the tools to stabilize himself. And so we did end up getting divorced. And I had had a a late miscarriage at the end of that marriage that just kind of revealed a lot of the lack of cohesion and I was able to just clearly see, like, this is literally what I will choose for the rest of my life if I stay married to him. But I was 26 at the time and so I prayed about it and really thought about it and spoke to my ecclesiastical leaders and just got advice and decided to file for divorce. And I continued to go to therapy, and I felt very healed, and I got a ton of tools, and I felt so confident. And I went and started dating, and I had a ton of fun, I went dancing all the time, I went out with so many amazing guys. I didn't even know that I was all that attractive to men until that point, and like, all of a sudden all these guys started falling in love with me, and it was so fun, and like, I just felt very magnetic. And, Personally powerful. And I was like, this is, this is great. I was having the time of my life. And then I met this man about a year and a half after I got divorced. And he was everything. He was, he could dance, he could talk. He'd been reading the books. He was doing self development classes as an entrepreneur that he had written. And he was six foot two and super gorgeous and like all of these things. And he was interested in me. And And I was like, okay, well that's fun, you know, we'll see where this goes. And one thing leads to another. We end up dating and we got married after a little while. And he was a wolf in sheep's clothing. He was violent. He was never not cheating on me. He was incredibly charismatic, which came with unfortunately the shadow side of that. And it was in, by many measurements, more traumatizing than my first marriage, but the tools that I learned from getting through my first marriage helps me to survive my second marriage. We had a child right away and then we had another one 17 months later and now those amazing young men are 12 and 13. And then I had a stillbirth and I lost 40 percent of my blood and I almost died. And I probably did die for a moment, and he, he kept being violent after that, like, while I'm recovering from blood loss, they didn't give me a blood transfusion. And I basically was picked up and taken out of that marriage. God put me 400 miles away and then was like, by the way, you need to get divorced. And I thought I would rather be dead than divorced because I thought getting divorced twice was like the worst thing that could literally ever happen to me. I was never going to leave him. I thought I was the problem. I thought I was messed up. I thought he was the better parent and you know, my kids were lucky to have him. And like, just, I was so upside down. And I had, my oldest was from my first marriage, and by the time that I, left that, that second marriage. My oldest was nine and then my littles were four and three and I was gelatinous splat. I couldn't see straight. I didn't see myself accurately at all. And as I was getting familiar with this new town that I was in, I had one friend there and she was kind of the reason why I was there and she saw this one person for her hair. And so I just went to her because I needed a haircut. And so I go and I meet Julie. And she's like, oh, I'm really into astrology. I'm like, that's great. And she's like, when's your birthday? And I was like, I'm a Sagittarius, but I'm not really into that stuff. And she's like, okay, do you know the minute you're born? And so she runs my chart, like, while she's cutting my hair out of her house. And the whole thing took like three and a half hours, of course. Because that's how it goes when you're connecting with somebody about some life changing information. So she runs my chart. And in like 10 minutes, she gives me just a quick rundown of incredibly personal, insightful things about myself and like why some of the choices because like she did know I was going through a divorce and that it was kind of messy, but like she didn't really know much about me at this point and she tells me things That I wouldn't tell people I'd known for 10 years. Things that I didn't even have words for, she was able to just easily articulate about myself. And it blew my mind wide open. And because I was in such a humble spot from all of life just proving me that I was basically totally wrong about everything I ever knew. I was able to, to listen and to accept that there was something to this. And. I basically demanded, you have to tell me everything, like, how, how do you know this? Like, how is this even possible? And so, kept going to see her, got my nails done with her, so I was there like every other week, and just really starting to try this on, and I was very trepidatious growing up in a very conservative Christian household. I didn't really tell people I was learning about astrology, and the more that I learned though, the more that my mind was illuminated, and I knew that God was in it. I could feel that, because I'd, I'd gotten bare level enough to be able to feel the difference between God being in something and not because I'd just been stripped of everything that I thought that I knew. And and so the more that I learned, the more I couldn't deny that it was incredibly helpful. And it turns out I have a divine affinity for astrology. It helps me tremendously to understand things. And then I got into human design, which only was another massive opening of incredibleness. And so now. I, so let's see, I left that marriage, it's been nine years since my second divorce. I was single for five and a half years, and then I met this man who was totally different than anybody I'd ever met before. And we dated and got married at the end of 2020, and he, so it's been three and a half years now. And every single day is wonderful. He treats me like an absolute queen. He fiercely protects my heart and he loves God more than he loves me and more than he loves himself. And every day is so, so, so good. And I had to do an unbelievable amount of personal work to allow someone to love me that well. And he has his own bumpy path that led him to me and he's just grateful every day for me. And I am for him, and I know that of course the things that we went through make us just ridiculously grateful for the most simple things. But we're also just really highly compatible, and I was able to understand that because I really deeply understand my astrology and human design, and his, and just people. And doing all this work, I get such a unique perspective into people's lives and the way that they think. And I can really see when people are not living true to themselves. I can literally see it mapped out. There

Kristin: 26:27

is so much to unpack there. I love, I love your honesty and your vulnerability and sharing that like, yes, here I am and I'm in this great space. And also, it was a really bumpy road to get here. Oh

Naomi: 26:39

yeah.

Kristin: 26:40

It sounds like there were some key people along the way. Like, how did you get plucked out the 400 miles?

Naomi: 26:48

So I was reading a book by Leslie Householder. If you don't know her yet, her work is phenomenal. She wrote a book called Hidden Treasures that's about some of the different laws of abundance and prosperity, the laws of the universe. And she does write it from a conservative Christian perspective, which really aligned with me. I think it allowed me to see this. And this was the year before I had left. So I was reading her book and in there she talks about like, you deserve miracles. So pray for miracles and expect them. So I would pray for miracles and the answer I got was I can't bless you right now. And I was like, that's weird, but okay. Like I trusted God. And so I prayed for miracles off and on. And then like, I would adjust like what was obvious in my life that I could know. And so I finally went to the Lord after like a couple of months of this back and forth. And I was just like, help me to see what I'm not seeing. Because there's something in my life that I don't know what it is. I really legitimately don't know. And after I got up off my knees from that prayer, I knew that that was going to change my whole life. I knew that whatever it was that I was refusing to see was going to, was going to show up. And in the prayer, I prayed, like, please help me to remember that I prayed for this when the thing shows up so I can know that it is that thing instead of just resisting it. And it was about a week later that I went in for a routine ultrasound and we had discovered that our baby had died. And And so going through that I had peace and then I ended up having surgery to remove him from planning a home birth to that because I wasn't going into labor. And so that's how I had complications from the surgery and everything. And so in that I actually ended up meeting Leslie in person like a month after I had lost my son and I was like still weak from loss of blood. And so connecting with her she is such a gorgeous, gorgeous human being. And now she's a friend of mine, which I just treasure. And And so just connecting with her and then one thing led to another like it was, it was that and then he was violent again and then we actually, we lived on a farm and we got evicted off of the farm because he didn't want to pay the mortgage and it just had really interesting perspectives on money and finances and so like we lost the farm and, and so it's just like it's almost cliche like how catastrophic everything was like in a five month period. And so we were homeless. And going from like house to house of friends houses that we'd be there for like a week and it was just, it was so, so, so chaotic. And so a girlfriend of mine, this, we lived in Phoenix through all of this and a girlfriend of mine lived in St. George and she had a bigger home and our kids were about the same ages and got along great and she, she knew that I had lost the baby and she knew That we didn't have a home, but she didn't know that my husband was violent. And so, but she knew. I mean, she knew. And so she was like, why don't you just come up here for a month and he can just stay there and kind of figure some things out. And so she was kind of creating that space. And I went up, and just being away from him, because if you're ever in a, like, narcissistic, manipulative, codependent type of dynamic you're, it's, it's really common for you to literally always be together, and we were. Like, we would go to the grocery store together, and I just saw it as that we were best friends, because that was the story that was handed to me. Like, here, here are the glasses that you will wear, this is how you will see the world, and I, you know, said, thank you so much. I will totally see the world from this perspective. And so getting away from him, and then she was very gentle in saying things like, when I would just say stuff, she'd be like, can you say that last part again? Like, just to kind of like, so that I would hear myself say it. And so those very gentle, inspired things that she would do. And then her neighbor, I had met her like three years before, like for five minutes, like I knew her name, her neighbor said that she had a dream about me. And so like, while I was staying there, like I went over to her neighbor's house and the three of us sat in her living room. Her name was Brenda and Brenda didn't have a dream about me. She's been able to talk to spirits on the other side of the veil since she was a little girl. She wasn't raised in a religious home. She converted to Catholicism as an adult, just because they welcome conversations a little bit more about angels and stuff, and then she converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, like, in her 60s, and she was in her 70s at this time. And so she had actually been conversing with my dead grandparents, who had, I had felt my grandma around, I knew she was there, but I didn't have the gifts to, like, hear anything she was saying. The neighbor did. And so I went and had like a three hour conversation basically with my grandma of things that I could feel but I couldn't translate into English and basically my grandma told this woman that barely knew me to tell me, you have to get out of this marriage. And so like, it was a like, complete clear dynamic of like, This is done. This is done. There's, do not be nice anymore. This isn't about niceness, and now I say, like, I'm not nice anymore. Nice nearly got me killed. I'm very kind, but I am not nice. And so just so many layers of without that community and then I basically walked out of her home, like, okay, I am getting divorced. Like, this is, like, the decision was made. And then it was like, I was like, okay, well, I need a place to stay. Like we came up with a plan of like, you know, it's okay. I'll just, I'll just be a wreck for the rest of my life, but I need to be able to support my children. And I was kind of the mindset I was in. And so I was like, okay, I'll just, I'll stay nearby. And the next day, my. My friend went to go to work and she had an apprentice. She was a midwife and she had an apprentice and she knew that her apprentice was moving. And so she's like, Oh, if you have any furniture or anything, I have a friend that's getting out of a domestic violence situation. Like if you could donate it. And she's like, well, we're actually not getting rid of any of our furniture. We're moving in with my parents. Cause God told us to, because someone else needs to come live in our house with all the furniture and all the towels and all the dishes and not pay rent. And. Like, that's just what we're told. And she's like, I think I know who that is. So I moved into that person's house two weeks later, and I wasn't paying rent. I just covered utilities. And then we slowly increased the rent as I kind of got back on my feet and I stayed there for a year and like the, the miracles that I had prayed for the summer before when God said I can't bless you yet. They poured out every day from the moment that I made the decision because the thing that I couldn't see in my life that was wrong was I was married to a man that was incredibly, incredibly harmful to myself, to my children And I was never going to see that. I was never going to admit that. I had a very, very different perspective on life that I was deeply committed to. It turns out I have a propensity for lying to myself very well. And so I'm very diligent about making sure now that I'm not lying to myself. I check in all the time just to make sure that the life that I'm living is really the life that I want because I paid such a high price for lying to myself for so long. And so. I, there's no way that I, I really believe I would be dead or I would be a shell of a person if I were still married to him. And I'm so grateful for the amazing lessons, like, I was on a very accelerated lesson path being married to him because the, the perspectives that I gained. I still harvest the blessings of that every single day, because I was able to grieve it and heal it and get myself safe, and I have a permanent protective order, and I understand boundaries, and I learned about greyrocking, where you don't respond, you don't give strong emotional responses, like, I've, I've had to learn everything as an adult who had zero conflict resolution skills. Now I'm very, very good at conflict resolution, but only because I had to bump and, and tumble the whole way there. And so now my siblings will call me for like, boundary advice, because they don't know how to do it either. They grew up the same way I did and, and I'm just so good at it. I'm like, no, you don't say it like that. Like, you could say this, or how about this? And they're like, hold on, let me write that down. Cause like, I just understand how to hold that boundary now in a way that only comes. From doing it so poorly for so long and seeing so clearly the cost of doing it in a way that is just not aligned with truth.

Kristin: 34:45

And what a gift to be able to give to other people who haven't been able to experience that yet. That your prayers change from basically like fix this, you know, which is a lot of our prayers can be that way. It can be like, God, this isn't working. What can you fix?

Naomi: 35:01

Yeah.

Kristin: 35:01

That your prayer changed to was, what am I not seeing that I need? What perspective do I need? What do I, what it needs to be fixed in me.

Naomi: 35:10

Yes. Leslie Householder says all the time, the solution to your problem is only one perspective shift away. That's it. Whatever problem you're dealing with, I do not care how big it is. I don't care how small it is. It is literally only a perspective shift away. And so my prayers are very oriented to that. Help me shift my perspective because either I will drop the problem because it's amazing how many times we are literally keeping and cultivating and nurturing a problem in our life. And it is 100 percent in our control to stop. And then sometimes it's not, sometimes it's like we can change our relationship with the problem. And then the problem itself. Finds a different, you know, host or whatever and, and sometimes it's, oh, this actually isn't a problem. I thought it was a problem. I was calling this a problem because it was, but as soon as your perspective shifts, you see that it's no longer a problem. Whatever it is, your solution to your problem is only a perspective shift away.

Kristin: 36:04

That is, that is super great advice, and I love that these people that you were able to lean into receiving, because I think that that, that's a huge barrier to getting help for so many people that, They would be like, Oh no, I can't live in your house while you live at your parents. Like, to accept a gift like that. It was very challenging. Yeah. Be receptive to that. That takes this deep level of, I don't know, humility, but like not in a sackcloth and ashes kind of a way, in a way that's like just accurate to like, okay, well, if you, if God put this in motion for me, And who am I to deny this gift?

Naomi: 36:46

Sometimes we give, and sometimes we receive, and most people have a very hard time being on the receiving end, because at the heart of it, they're still judging the people that are on the receiving end. If you can't receive help, it's because you are judging people who need help. That's just the way it is. It's the hard truth. And giving and receiving is not I'm more stable and better than you, and therefore I can help you out, which is usually where we start with our thinking of giving and receiving. But because I've had to, I've had to be on the receiving end at multiple times of my life, I've learned that giving and receiving is no different. It's just as neutral as inhaling and exhaling. You cannot give without receiving, and you cannot receive without giving and stay in any sort of balanced integrity. If you're taking and not giving, and you're somebody who's just, I'll take this and I'll take this, that's not, that's something else. That's a, that's a different, that's an imbalance that's creating debt, energetic debt, financial debt, whatever. And if you are giving, giving, giving, and you refuse to receive, that's not giving and receiving. What that is is control, and it's power, and it's trying to stay on top of things. Because if you are in a position to receive, there's a perception that you're weak and vulnerable. And I can only speak this because I, Burned through all of these lessons, like absolute refiner's fire to understand this, that receiving is as neutral as inhaling and giving is as neutral as exhaling, and it is a balance of the universe and we all are in a stage of giving at certain seasons of our life and we're all in a stage of receiving.

Kristin: 38:20

And I think that really We can be in a place to do both at every season. It's just that at some seasons, it's bigger than others. I have seen people who are on really hard times. Give a small word of encouragement. Okay. So they don't have any money. They don't have a lot of time. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But that's, that's. Still giving, they're still like giving that we can be doing spirit of giving, even if we're in a place where we're receiving a lot. When I first heard Brené Brown talk about that, about if we can't receive without judgment, we never are truly giving without judgment. Like, that actually like a messed my whole mind, my whole paradigm. And I think. I think it literally took me a couple of months to wrap my head around that because I had such a savior complex to do all the child care and take all the meals and listen to all the people and be empathetic and never let anyone see when it was hard for me. When it was hard for me, I withdrew and I just did it alone until I could like go back into the world to save, right? And so this whole idea that I wasn't, in my mind, I was so good for doing these things, like I was earning my own worth for myself, and now you're telling me really I'm just judging people? Like,

Naomi: 39:41

It's because you were following this socially acceptable toxic thinking, like it's very socially acceptable to be like, I am a good person because I serve. But Like, it's socially acceptable to be addicted to sugar. It's socially acceptable, you know, there's all these things that are very unhealthy dynamics that we have and we know it, but we laugh about it and we joke about it. There's things that are not socially acceptable. You can't show up at a party and be like, haha, totally addicted to heroin. Like, you can't say that, right? Like, so we know which things to hide and we know which things that are okay. And so the socially acceptable ones, especially the ones that give you that badge, like, I am a good person. Those are the hardest to give up because. We are not aware that we need to do anything about them. We actually earn them, and we foster them, and we nurture them. And so, yes, I love that Brene Brown talks about it so candidly. And that, yeah, it basically just totally stripped away a huge part of your ego. And you're like, wait! Wait! And you can't unsee it at that point. And you're just like, this is so painful! Like, I thought this was who I was. I thought I was defined by this thing. And it turns out that's, not only is that not true, but now Because you value growth, you were able to listen and you were like, great, now what do I orient myself to if I'm not a quote good person who serves all the time and gives all the time and takes care of everything with ease? Ugh.

Kristin: 41:00

Oh, it was so hard for me. Another paradigm shift for me. I'm, I assume you're familiar with the Enneagram, even though it's like what you specialize in. But when I first worked with the Enneagram and learned about that. I was sure I was a two and I thought I was a two for a very long time. I don't remember what happened if somebody said to me, no, you're actually a three or if I looked at it and when I came to realize like I was a three who was masking as a two because I thought it wasn't okay to be a three. A hundred percent.

Naomi: 41:32

And like, can we talk a little bit about your astrology and human design? So as a personal application, like I have this little soapbox that I stand on of women who were raised in conservative cultures that are fire signs. And you are an Aries. I'm a Sagittarius, which is the most quote acceptable fire sign because I'm a mutable fire. So I have like a fire that doesn't burn quite as hot. Like I'm still passionate, but I can sort of adjust it to whatever people's flavor, which has its own toxic things that come out of it. But especially Aries and Leo women, or somebody who has an Aries or Leo moon that's a woman, I found that fire energy is inherently more masculine. And so there's shame right there of like, I have to hide who I am. Who I am is not acceptable. Like an Aries man or a Leo man, totally. Like, go be your bad self. Be confident. Strut around. Do all the things. But an Aries woman or a Leo woman is going to. try harder to fit themselves into that too, into that soft, sensitive, nurturing, caretaking, loving, like dutiful. And it's really common for Aries specifically to have a savior complex because Aries are the strongest. You just are like all the signs have amazing gifts, but Aries are the strongest. So it's literally like, I can take that. I can take that. I can take that. And most Aries women, when I meet with them, when we do like one on one sessions, or they go through my certification program, it comes out that they're like, Legitimately carrying, like, five or six other people's entire problems on their back. Like, if not 18, like, like, legitimately, like, disproportionate levels. Yes. 100%. And so it's like learning just because you can doesn't mean you should. And you can, you literally can carry other people's problems. That is valid. That is true. However, What else could you do with that magnificent energy if you weren't taking away people's ability to learn for themselves? And I know you've already learned all of this, but speaking to, like, all the fiery women out there, and, like, you might not be an Aries or a Leo, and if you're resonating with this, like, you might have an Aries or a Leo moon sign, or a rising sign, or something, because, like, those are the three biggest energies. And so, this is where it can be so helpful, because, There's a few areas of fire energy that's acceptable, quote unquote acceptable, in women like dedication and drive to, like, do the task and, like, to see it through and passion and all of that, but passion only a certain way. You can't have all the passion, only some of the passion, you know? And so, like, I find so many of these fire sign women have learned how to kind of carve themselves. in a way that is just, you get to a certain point in your life and often it just kind of explodes, implodes, like, just, you won't have it anymore. And so I laugh when I have these. I just saw another friend of mine. She was so conservative and so sweet and so lovely for so long. And I just saw her pop up in my stories and she was talking about how she was an Aries and she got herself a nose ring for her birthday and like all of these things. And I just laughed because I was like, there's another Aries that woke up that finally wasn't going to have it anymore. And yeah. You know, it shows up all different kinds of ways, but it was just, it's just, I love it when people are claiming who they are in the light. And they really, truly, like, they see the shadow of who they are. In my teaching, I always teach about light and shadow. Like, Aries has light and shadow, Taurus has light and shadow, Gemini light and shadow. Because you can see where on the spectrum of your particular energies that you're showing up. And you can go, oh yeah, that ugly, ugly thing, like, that's my go to right there. And you can kind of learn how to move it over to the light so that you can be happy and joyful and not full of shame and really claim who you are and release who you're not.

Kristin: 45:03

And I love your focus on light filled astrology, which is really like a tagline for you, that it is light filled astrology. So when I was a little kid, I loved to read like the Aries on the horoscope and I always thought it was cool that it was Aries and whatever, but like horoscopes are so not what astrology is about. And so when I talk to my family sometimes a little bit, I'm like, I'm learning this. They're like, Oh, and I'm like, no, this is not the newspaper horoscope, right? I think that what really piqued my interest was a few years ago, I was in charge of our Christmas program for sacrament meeting, which in our faith is basically like the equivalent of mass, except it isn't like the priest who's doing the whole thing, members of the congregation help with the music and speak and whatnot. But I was in charge of writing our Christmas program and I did a deep dive into the perspective of the three wise men. Yes. Not really necessarily three of them. So we'll just write wise men because that's the cultural except we just call it the three wise men. We put three in our nativity, but we actually don't know how many there were and they were probably not three. But at any rate, as I studied them and kind of deep dived everything I could find about them and here they were on this journey to visit the Christ child and how important that they stopped first, like to see Herod. And then they knew enough not to go back and report on what they found and just the way their whole journey went and all of that. I was like, okay. So there really is God in astrology,

Naomi: 46:32

Yeah, they were astrologers. That was the only way they knew what they knew. Yeah.

Kristin: 46:37

And this isn't like a fortune telling in this weird way. And I think maybe it could be because I have not been exposed to a ton of astrology outside of you and yours does not hit me in this really creepy dark way. I'm sure that that exists, but yes, it is this focus on actually understanding your purpose and how you are wired so that you can live according to your own personal God given purpose and you can understand how shifts in the earth might affect you emotionally or might bring certain concepts to the forefront, but it's not like a fortune telling, like, like, I don't know in a way that is taking away from your agency or in a way that is not relying on God. I don't know if, so anyone who's listening who's like, now she's gone away, woo woo, because she's talking astrology and human design. I'm just saying, go, if, especially if you're a Christian, go study the wise men. Like there is more to this and we're not talking about a fortune. We are talking about different ways of understanding who you are so that you can live according to your highest purpose and your highest good.

Naomi: 47:50

Absolutely. Horoscopes were invented to sell newspapers. Right? And so just understanding that, and the wise men actually studied the same teachings that Daniel, like Daniel and the Lion's Den, he was a master astrologer. That's how he was able to interpret the king's dreams. So if you look, it talks about, like, as you reread it, I thought it was, you know, people were like, that's what it talks about, astrologers are evil. And really what it was is that there were astrologers and magicians and all of these people that had these powers and gifts. That we're using them for evil, that you were using them for personal gain and for control and power. And it said that Daniel was more powerful than all the other astrologers, all the astrologers in the land. Which would actually indicate, when you're not reading it with the lens of trying to find what's wrong, but just to like read it neutrally, is that he was an astrologer and he was the best astrologer. I actually read this book, it's out of print, it's called Twelve Signs, Twelve Sons, and this author had this speculation, like, he was very against astrology and very, very dedicated to his Christian faith, and he went and studied to try to prove astrology wrong, and what he ended up finding, actually, was that the twelve tribes of Israel correspond with the twelve signs of the zodiac, and it was actually, like, different times where Jacob, refers to his sons more in an astrological way than in like that their names are directly corresponding with their astrological signs. And that he, he speculated that it was actually the house of Israel that had the original personality system given to them by God through astrology. And we do know that the Babylonians had astrology, but their astrology was more for predicting events. And for understanding that and so when the tribes of Israel were taken captive that that's when it blended and they saw that these children of Israel had these incredible insights, and so they actually had them teach and then it became a blend. And then it became really more of what we have today in astrology, which I am very cautious about predictions and, you know, future telling and all of that. That's not how I use it. In fact, I certify people to be light filled astrologers because God told me that I'm here to teach and gather those that are looking to understand astrology they feel prompted to, but they don't want to let go of God. And that's, that's where my niche is. I'm not here to convert anybody to astrology. If it's not their thing, that's totally fine. But for those that are like, I really think I need to look into this. I have lots of people that have really only learned from me, like you said. because I'm the only teacher that they feel is safe enough to learn from because I keep God at the center of my life and I keep God in the center of my teachings and that's the niche that I fill. And so in the code of conduct, my, all of my astrologers need to sign, they have to sign that they're going to do all of these different things to hold that high standard. And one of them is that we do not use astrology for prediction because it's very, very clear. There's only like 10 things that they need to initial. To say that that's what they're going to do, and one of them is, we do not use it for prediction, because astrology becomes a problem if you substitute it for going to God. But that's the case with anything. Like, you could be really into the stock market and substitute that for going to God. You could actually even substitute your family for God. And, you know, you, anything that stands in between you and God is a problem. And astrology is a powerful system. And that's why so many religious leaders have kind of gone out of their way to advise against it. Because it's a threat. If you If you are somebody who is in power and you don't want people to have their own power, astrology is a powerful system that people can use, and I also understand the warning of don't touch the evil things, and if you get involved in a system that you actively substitute God for, that can become a problem, but I trust myself to use discernment. I trust other people to use discernment. And I do believe people have been specifically instructed away from astrology because for them it would be a problem. But I have thousands and thousands of people in my space that are actively seeking to understand and learn about their astrology and their human design and wanting to teach it and offer it and help guide people through it. And so that's, that's why I, That's part of why I was put on the planet, and I'm just doing what God told me to, and I just hope so much that everybody does what God tells them to, and just magnifies the light wherever they're at.

Kristin: 52:06

And your community, like on Facebook, because I'm in that community, it isn't at all like predictive, it'll be like, so I was looking at this, and I realized this insight about this is why I have this dynamic with my spouse and this is how I'm trying to work through that because now I understand why he's wired that way and why I'm wired this way and now I see a path to wiring us together in a better way. Those are the kinds of conversations I think I posted recently because I realized that in my family I have six daughters and five of them plus myself are fire signs. And I just got this realization that I was like, Oh my gosh, all of us, but Anne, I have one daughter that's born in September and then two on November 27th two of us are April 3rd. Cause my, we have two shared birthdays, my oldest and then my sixth child share birthday. And then I share birthday with my eighth child. And then I have an August 2nd and August 16th.

Naomi: 53:11

Oh my goodness. I

Kristin: 53:12

No wonder why it's, whoa, like, I don't know. It just was kind of this, like, it made a lot of sense why there.

Naomi: 53:20

So much among basic level of information can be so like sanity giving to just be like this explains a few things. I have one child and there's one person in my house that is not a fire sign and bless him he is a Capricorn, which is a cardinal earth. And so he wants stability, he wants quiet, he wants steadiness and the rest of our house just doesn't bring that to the table.

Kristin: 53:43

No, and it's just insightful to be able to kind of look at that and say, okay. And I think what it does is it also removes the judgment. Yes. And when you look at someone in your space, especially in your family, your family or your close friend relationships to say, no, we're just wired differently. And it's, okay, it doesn't, it, it's not bad that I'm wired this way. I was just talking with my oldest daughter about, I was, you know, late diagnosed. And you mentioned this before we started with ADHD at Age 41 and how so much of my life, I felt like my inability to understand time, like I am so blind to time. It is not like I try to cope and set all these alarms and do like you lean into this, but then you'll see like things on Facebook, like, you know, if someone's late, it's because they don't care about other people. And I'm like, That's like saying that if someone doesn't see colors properly, they don't care about color when they're colorblind. Like literally, I don't feel time in my body. It is just not. And so, you know, learning to be on time. I was born three weeks late and in my family. The joke is that like I was born late and I've been late ever since and I've come a long way. I actually am like, if I'm late, I'm now usually like five minutes late or maybe ten minutes late. And instead of an hour late, like really, that's progress. Like I'm trying. But it's those kinds of things that I always took on as like a moral failing like this is wrong with me. Like I'm not good at organizing stuff. Paperwork, like, Just all of the stuff that comes from having kids, that is not an area that I am good at. I'm very good at community building. I'm good at seeing the gifts in other people. I'm good at bringing people together. I'm good at speaking. I'm good at writing, but I am not good at those things. And I always spent time beating myself up like it was a moral failing that I wasn't doing these things.

Naomi: 55:38

Absolutely.

Kristin: 55:39

And being able to understand those just aren't my gifts.

Naomi: 55:44

And it's so, it's so simple if you can accept it. What I love about astrology and human design is it is objective as opposed to subjective. Because it's just what the energies were the moment that you entered the planet. When you took your first breath, that was the energy that was infused as a template onto you. And that's how you're expressing those are your strengths and your weaknesses and all of that. And like, I'm a personality system junkie, I love it, but the issue with personality systems, like the Enneagram and other ones, is that you're answering questions still somewhat from your mind based on what you think you are, or think you should say, and so there is just room for it to be Still, like a, like you've got a filter on yourself of like, I should be this way, and I can find evidence that I'm this way, even if you try really hard, most people cannot see themselves accurately. It takes a tremendous amount of work, like decades of work, to see yourself accurately, and honestly, I don't even know how somebody could without Understanding their astrology and human design because here is neutral information like you're in Aries, your moon is in Aquarius, and just understanding these things on a basic, simple level, just accepting them and looking at, okay, what's the light and shadow of Aries? What's the light and shadow of an Aquarius moon? And just comprehending that will get you so much further in self processing than, any of these other personality systems, which still have merit and they're still really great, but I just feel like they are lacking in fundamental truth because they are still, to some extent, subjective rather than objective.

Kristin: 57:17

Oh, that makes so much sense. Why I thought I was a two for so long. And for people who don't know what the Enneagram is, twos are like the real helpers. The nurturers. Are like more of the like go getter achievers. Yeah. And so, I'm a four,

Naomi: 57:31

three, I think. I'm a four, one, three, eight? I can't remember. I'm a four first, but yeah.

Kristin: 57:39

Being able to kind of see where you are and some of the things you shared where we should have been recording and you were like, well, you have this placement here and it does this. And I was like, okay, yes,

Naomi: 57:49

basically I have a lot of opposition within myself. Yes. If you want to recapture that just to spark people's interest a little bit, we can talk about that. So as soon as I pulled up your chart I saw that you have Saturn. Opposing your moon, and you have Pluto opposing your sun. Anytime I see in a chart, if you just look at the sun sign and the moon sign, because that's, the sun sign is your core of self, it's self identity, who you are, your personal power, all of that, and then your moon sign is your inner world. It's how you are when no one else is around, and it's how you often how we see ourselves. We don't always see ourselves very accurately, and it's, it's our, it's also our filter for our emotions. And so any time you have something opposing your sun sign or your moon sign, You're going to feel a perpetual level of external opposition in your life. Because pretty much all of the relationships in our life are just a mirror of what we're working out inside of ourselves. And so, somebody with something opposing their sun and their moon is going to have that type of dynamic playing out in their lives. Now, you have Saturn opposing your moon and Pluto opposing your sun. Saturn and Pluto, they're not bad, but they're called the two devils of the sky because they're both harsh. Neither of them are gentle at all, like if you, whatever is the opposite of gentle, that is kind of the realm that they play in because Saturn is the maestro, it's the teacher. Like imagine, and we didn't discuss this ahead of time so we'll just add this to it, the way I see Saturn is, imagine you're like a little girl and you play violin and you've got a knack for it and you just have fun with it and your parents are like, oh my gosh, she has the ability to become the best in the world at this. So they hire the best in the world violin teacher to come to your house. And he's this old cranky man and he comes and you're like playing the violin and you're like, look what I can do. And you're all happy. And then he's like, you messed up, go back to the beginning. And you're like, Oh, well, that was, I don't know if I like this. And then, you know, you, you play and then you get further into it and you mess up, go back to the beginning. And he keeps coming back day after day. And you're like, I hate this guy. Like he's so annoying. Like, I just want to have fun. I just want to do it the way I want to do it. Or some days I want to skip my practice and I just want to do that. But Saturn is. is helping you to be better. And so if you have the wrong perspective about Saturn, you're like, Oh, I hate you. Like, go away. You're only causing problems in my life. All I, all I want to do is go and you just make me stop. But if you see the correct perspective, you're like, if I do what you tell me to, I will become the best in the world at this thing. I will be playing on the stage at Carnegie Hall. And I will be able to absolutely shine in this thing that inherently I do know that I have a gift for, but I can only achieve that through extreme discipline. That's Saturn. And Pluto is the planet of absolute death and destruction, down to the ashes, obliterated, and then, after a period of time, rising from the ashes, the phoenix, resurrection. It's the most powerful energy in the chart. It will absolutely disintegrate and destroy whatever it does. And so, your Pluto is opposing your sun, so you have this power, power, power opposing who you think you are. your perceptions of yourself, the core of you, and then you have this harsh discipline, maestro, opposing your inner world and your emotions. And so you're always negotiating around this very large power struggle to the core of who you are, and your emotions are under the thumb of this very, very intense, rigid, start over, you didn't do it right. And so as somebody with ADHD, You manifested, you claimed having this beautiful wiring in your brain that is not good at tasks that other people assign as morally superior, like organizing paperwork and arriving on time. Who's to say you're arriving late? What if, what if you're arriving perfectly on time? It just doesn't happen to be the same as what's on the calendar. Time, we get so obsessed with time and we want to control time and all of that, but so your gifts are manifesting in a way that the only way that you can really call them gifts is to drop the moral narratives of what is good and what is bad, which it turns out they're completely subjective to whoever is calling the shots. And when we claim like, actually I really love this about myself, and it's legitimately wonderful. And we can just. be who we actually are. Just understanding, like, if you have anything opposing your sun and your moon, like that is a really, really big deal because the sun and the moon will involve every breath you take in your life. Not just certain areas, but everything.

Kristin: 1:02:13

I feel that I feel that on this whole like journey to podcasting and like feeling caught called to do this and then being like, but can I do it? Can I do it right? Can I learn how to edit it? Well, what if I don't get the episode dropped on the day? Like I have an episode I should have dropped a few days ago that I didn't and that's really hard for me. But also I have this family with their own life circumstances and trying to balance all the things without. That harsh judgment

Naomi: 1:02:40

in my head. And that's just your Saturn like going rogue. And the way that you would deal with that, like, okay, what do I do with that information? Like, how does this help me? Is I would recommend sitting down and having a little chat with your Saturn and just being like, Hey so like, what do you need to be satisfied? Like, what is it that you're looking for? Like what things and like literally sit and like write a list and have a meeting, like bring your great and powerful God and Saturn and your Saturn specifically. And like, what is doing in your chart? And like, have a little conversation of like, That, that voice in your head is never going to shut up. It's never going to, like, let you off the hook. So I would just get really clear on, like, what things are non negotiable, and what things can we just agree to let go of? Because you can't do everything. And so just kind of consciously sort of clearing out the weeds, clearing out the extraneous, and just zooming in, because everybody has Saturn somewhere in their chart. Saturn is doing something in everybody's chart. And so just being like, okay, like, what is integrity? And what is out of integrity, because what's in integrity for you and me, like, both of us, we really shouldn't lie to people, right, like, we shouldn't go stealing from people, we shouldn't punch people in the face, like, we can agree on that, that's pretty universal integrity, but like, what is in integrity for you and what is in integrity for me are different things, like, what time you should wake up, what, what to eat, when to eat, how often to eat how to interact with each of your children, like, There is integrity and lack of integrity in every step, every decision, but we lose sight that what is in integrity for me is not going to be the same for you.

Kristin: 1:04:11

Oh, that's so important too. It's so important to recognize that, you know, I just I wrote this piece about sometimes I build my eternal family in a bar. Yeah. Several people shared that had to do with how I have a daughter who isn't active in the faith that she was raised in and I've gone to go see her on Sunday in my church clothes because I'm coming straight from church and I don't want to miss another minute, but I want to be at church and fulfill my responsibilities there. And just that perspective. And. I'm not going to tell everyone that that's what you should do with your own children.

Naomi: 1:04:43

Yes.

Kristin: 1:04:43

I don't know. I am not a parent of your children. Amen, sister. Why I feel like it's important to share that is the collective narrative. A friend shared with me actually that yesterday at church, she read part of what I wrote in her class with Relief Society, which is the women's organization of our church. And at the end of the lesson, someone shared that She was that daughter at a time that she wasn't going to church and invited her mom to come country line dancing at a bar. And mom, it'll be so fun. You don't have to drink, but come dance with me. And the mom said, no, I will not go because I won't feel the spirit when I walk into the bar. And. Part of me wants to judge the mom, right? Like, and be like, you got it wrong. Yeah. But I actually don't know because maybe that daughter needed different boundaries. And I think that's a beautiful thing of recognizing I'm not going to blanket statement say she's wrong. I am going to say that has been the accepted narrative and I don't think that's right for everyone. And so I think my story is important because I want to give permission to the people who are feeling like I am that you can hold to your faith in God. and love your children fiercely without judging them for choosing differently than you and you can go to the bar and sing at open mic and yeah them at their brunch and you can do those things and in fact i love and treasure the time i get to spend with her when i'm with her i'm not thinking about Things I wish were different in her like that is not even like radar, but it's not even like part. It's not like I'm fighting against it. It's not like I'm taking deep breaths to be like, I can't believe you're choosing this, but like, okay, no, I actually love to be with her because there's so much goodness in her. I like to be with her. And I think that is the space. I want to encourage other parents to get to even if their path is different. Yes. They are entitled to knowing what the right answer is for their child and at the right time. I know there are times where people thought I gave her too much freedom, and I felt very strongly that I gave her the amount of freedom that she needed, which was actually more than I was comfortable with. But I felt like if I stifled her more, she would have made even more dumb choices. Like I just was like, just what I felt like God was asking me to do as a parent for her.

Naomi: 1:07:07

Absolutely. And it's so valuable. Like to hear this person you just heard from recently about her on the other side of it. She's not your daughter. They're not the same, but to hear like the children who did need that level of freedom and were restricted, like. You just don't know, and we can't judge. I mean, you have eight children, which is a lot, but you still only have eight children. Like, that's only eight chances of that experience of motherhood, and so somebody with one child has a child that's 100 percent different than any of your children, so who are you to say, like, oh, you should do it this way or that? And, I just, I love this so much.

Kristin: 1:07:40

And the thing is, is I don't even react the same way to all of my children. I have eight children who are super different from one another. Like in some families you can be like, Oh, so and so is so much like so and so. Like I actually don't have that. I have eight like really unique to each other children who came with totally different makeups. And so I'm like relearning to parent every single time I get like, Yes, I might have more tools or more ideas or more experience, but there is no cookie cutter thing here. There's no assembly line. There's very little that applies from child to child. That's been my experience. I reacted with my oldest might not be the way I would react with some of the other children because they have needs and they're different individuals. And I, I love the way that you, you look at this and you're empowering people to see who you are, who the people around you are. And let's honor that so that we can all be kind of working towards our highest good and recognizing, yes, we have these universal things, we don't want to go around punching each other or lying to each other, like there are these universal moral things that our society is better if we live with those principles.

Naomi: 1:08:49

Yeah.

Kristin: 1:08:50

But there's

Naomi: 1:08:50

so much that really isn't

Kristin: 1:08:51

about morality.

Naomi: 1:08:53

No. And even the people that go around punching other people and lying to people, if we really understood their story, if we understood how they got to that place, we would have so much love and compassion for them and we would see, we could not help but see if we could actually receive their story, that they truly are doing the best that they can. And this is spoken as somebody who lived in a domestic violence marriage, like, I still believe that he is doing the the very best that he can. I also have very good boundaries, and he doesn't get to be in my life. But, like, there are people out there that are doing what is arguably morally, quote, wrong, but that is not The ultimate goal, the ultimate goal is for us to learn and grow. And sometimes we are going to be the ones that are walking the morally gray area because we're doing the best we can with what we have, or we don't know how to do it a better way. When you know better, you do better. Maya Angelou gave us that beautiful, beautiful insight. And so just, we think that everyone is just like us, but they're doing it badly. So true. And so when we can allow people to not only be who they are, but if you can actually see the map of, Oh, I'm like this, and oh wow, you're like this, that is so different. Well, no wonder you would choose to handle this problem or this situation in a way that I couldn't even comprehend. For me, my compassion has only risen a hundredfold when I can really just take a peek at somebody's chart and just have an idea of what's going on. And I can, I can just release my chokehold on needing to be in control of everything. And I can just be like, you know what, I'm just working on me and I'm just going to do the very best I can with what I have.

Kristin: 1:10:28

Which totally builds community so much to be able to look at people in that way and to say, yes, like I understand where you're coming from and, and to see ourselves more clearly because there are things that are gifts for me that I have never felt like were gifts because they came easily. And so I discounted the value there and I felt like, well, if it came easily to me, then it comes easily to everyone, right? This isn't even a gift because it's not even that hard. Right. But actually we all are blessed with different gifts. It comes to it. So being able to see that in ourselves and others and be really gift focused and not seeing the ugliness as magnifying that, just understanding it without magnifying it, being able to say, okay, this is why. So I, I love so much. There's just so much that's been thought provoking here in it. There are things I want to now go back and look at some of the people in my circle and their charts and be like, okay, I got to come at this with more compassion. All right. Feeling called to that. So I do want to ask you if you had a billboard somewhere in the world that everyone was going to see, what message do you think the world needs right now?

Naomi: 1:11:36

It's so funny that you ask that because just yesterday in church I had this huge flash of insight and I was like, I need to start a non profit and I know what it, like, I've been wanting to start one for a while because I just saw this in my mind. I was observing this mother and her mother manage their two little girls who are probably very ADHD. They're just busy, busy, busy, busy. And I've had conversations with this mother before and so I was just observing her and I was, my mind was like, how could I create an impact that would help people who are struggling like she is. Just very rigid, they were just like, obsessed with making those little girls sit and fold their arms and just pay attention. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, I know the level of damage that is being done right before my eyes, and like, I can't intervene, I can't interfere. And so just like, kind of seeing, and I saw this flash, and I told my husband in the middle of church, I leaned over, I said, I really want a billboard. Just big, white, with big bold black letters that says, you are doing better than you know. And so I was like, I'm going to start a nonprofit called better than, you know, and so I bought like in the middle of church, like they can never do this, but I bought better than, you know, dot org, because I just saw it so clearly that it's like years ago when I was doing sessions with people starting to do them I would check in before we would wrap up and I'd be like, okay, what does this person need to hear? And almost every single time it would be, you are doing so much better than, you know, And so I say that all the time, I post it all the time, I, it's just part of how I breathe now, is just reassuring others and reassuring myself, you are doing so much better than you know, and like, I can show you the map, but you can also just know, and you can also go to your great and powerful God, and receive a witness of that as well, and so yes, like, I have actively been thinking for like the last 24 hours, like, Okay, I could start a non profit. I researched billboard prices yesterday, and I was like, okay, so for about 3, 500 a month, I could have a billboard right off of I 15, like, where I live in St. George, Utah, and like, it would just grow from there, and so, like, I have been very, very, very conscious of, like, I just want the world to know. Just, that's it. And I was like, I bet people would start crying in their cars alone. I told my husband, he's like, yeah, probably. Like, not that it's my goal to make people cry, but it's my goal to open up that crack a little bit and let the light in. Because if you can hear truth, on the parts that you feel shame, that's when they can start to heal.

Kristin: 1:13:55

Absolutely. And I think that that, that is a place where I have seen community be so powerful that we are wounded in community. It is our relationships so often that, that wound us. You're in an abusive relationship. You are wounded in that relationship and the real healing. We, we are responsible to do whatever healing work on our own that we can.

Naomi: 1:14:16

And that is important, but real like finishing processes. come through other people. It doesn't have to be necessarily a marriage partner to a marriage partner, but the wounds don't heal alone. They just don't. We have to be connected to experience that full range of healing. So much. Yes.

Kristin: 1:14:35

I love that you're connecting people and, and I love your billboard idea. I think that's phenomenal.

Naomi: 1:14:42

Thank you so much. This was amazing. I just really, really enjoyed this conversation.

Kristin: 1:14:46

Thank you. And do you have any final thoughts that you want to leave with our listeners?

Naomi: 1:14:51

I just, I love that you've listened this far. I hope that this has been really helpful and that you just come away from this with like a little bit more of a permission to just be who you are.

Kristin: 1:15:01

I appreciate that. I'm in a stage where I need that. So I accept that gratefully.

1:15:07

Outro Music

Kristin: 1:15:11

So I hope that that was such a good use of your time, that you felt uplifted, that you felt inspired, that you were able to take away the messages here that were for you and to see the goodness that's there for you, even through those difficult life experiences, which can refine us and really help us to level up. If you're interested in learning about Naomi and her different offerings, there's a free class she offers that you can find on her website. And of course, there's the opportunity to even become a Light Filled Astrologer and certify with her. There's a whole breadth of offerings that she has. She has a self care toolkit as well that is very well priced if you're looking for extra self care tools. So all of the information for how to find Naomi online will be in the show notes. So go there if this has been something that's been uplifting for you so that you can continue to benefit from Naomi's goodness. I want you to know just how much it means to me every time. I see a person listening to another episode of Solidarity Sister. Every time an episode is shared, every time that there's a review left or a rating, I really appreciate your support. Doing this podcast is actually part of me trying to follow the path that I think God has called out for me. And having community support me in doing that, it means so much more than I would have realized. When I was on the other side and I had friends starting things, but it really means so much. Thank you for being part of the Solidarity Sister community. We needed you.